Just out of curiosity - Who, in your opinion, would make up a top 10 list of agents/agencies in the London area...?
Editorial Comment You're welcome to list your top 10 however, please don't list a bottom 10 along with associated grumblings as this will be likely to cause problems and have the thread removed!
Yes thinking about it in a less cynical frame of mind I know plenty of actors who are not with the top ten agents who work a lot in regional rep and get two or three one-episode parts a year in things like Casualty and the Bill.
However that means they are earning about £13700.00 per annum from acting work and that's before they deduct all the expenses such as agents commission and travel to auditions. So as I said to some new actors at an audition last week, welcome to the world of abject poverty.
And yes a know it's art but there will come a time when it stops being exciting and bohemian and just turns plain squalid.
I totally understand what Blake says and where he is coming from but I believe it is very blinkered and somewhat naieve. I have been in the business for a long time and if you look back at my original post about tv dramas and actors and their agents along with the information I know as FACT from a mainstream CD, maybe you will actually believe what I said is true.
I have taken 5 mainstream dramas from both ITV and BBC that are playing this week on national television, I will list the productions and then show you the actor AND their agent, it proves that what I said is not me providing info on a whim - BUT FACTUAL !!
The programmes are :- Foyles War, Hotel Babylon (or should that be agent biased Babylon!!), Trial and Retribution, Bonkers and Life on Mars - take away from the lists children and certain ethnic minorities ( some of whom use specialist agents ) and what you are left with are my 10 agents as listed on my initial mail with one addition which stupidly I did not include as they slipped my mind - ARG !!!
Foyles War:-
Michael Kitchen ICM
Honeysuckle Weeks ARG
Gavin Brocker Conway van G
Ann Beach Brown and Simcocks
Ron Cook ICM
Will Beer Conway van G
Caroline Martin Markham and Froggatt
Tony Haygarth Conway van G
Trial and Retribution:-
David Hayman Markham and Froggatt
Victoria Smurfitt ARG
Dorian Lough Curtis Brown
Vince Leigh Ken McReddie
Gemma Fones Conway van G
Greg Hicks Curtis Brown
Olivia Hallinan Conway van G
Michael Pennington Curtis Brown
Fiona SHaw ICM
Life on Mars:-
John Simm ICM
Phil Glennister Ken Mcreddie
Liz White ICM
Noreen Kershaw Ken Mcreddie
Marc Warren Ken Mcreddie
Gemma Wardle Evans and Reiss
Hotel Babylon:-
Tamzin Outhwaite Conway van G
Max Beesley ICM
Dexter Fletcher ICM
Ronnie Ancona ICM
Michael Obion ICM
Natalie Mendoza Conway van G
Emma Pierson ICM
Ray COulthard PFD
Martin Marquez PFD
Cherie Lunghi CAM
Paul Telfer ARG
Bonkers:-
Oliver Chris ICM
Mark Addy ICM
Charles Aitken ICM
Alan Hassall PFD
Tim Dutton ARG
Linda Bellingham ARG
Cathy Tyson CAM
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Yes, I know there may well be 1 scene, cough and a spit part in other shows but for MAINSTREAM DRAMA this is what you are up against unless you are signed to one of the big ten - sorry, but I hate to tell you I told you so. xx
My lovely friend is in Hotel b this week and is with Shane Collins! (I know, I know, coughs and spits....)
And the only person from my drama school class on that list: Hip HIp Hooray for Gavin Brocker(last night, foyle's war)who is with CVGelder and got there by winning an olivier award bursary at drama school. (Another unlikely eventuality, but at least he didn't have to change his birth certificate to redgrave)
It's difficult to compare acting to "most other occupations" without giving specific examples.
If you're talking about jobs within showbusiness in general then yes, securing work is competitive.
However, if we compare the acting profession to, for example, a career in the financial sector as a Bank Manager (assuming it has been your lifelong desire to secure such a role) then it is still competitive in terms of winning the position but the major difference is job security.
Acting is one of the professions where a majority of those trained and qualified as performers are not actually working in their chosen field.
Of course, we all knew (and were most likely advised repeatedly by others during those acting workshops and courses we attended) that it would initially be challenging to establish ourselves.
One of the major issues, as we all know, is too few jobs. Currently it seems that in order to be invited to auditions for certain work you must be with one of the top agents.
I can understand this to a certain degree - they want the best actor for the job and believe they will find such a person via a top agent.
It's reassurance on their part but it doesn't exactly give all those other talented actors without a top agent an opportunity.
If actors put as much effort into finding work as they do into whingeing about the lack of it, they would be too busy to moan!
My agent isnt in the Top 10, or even in London but its not stopped me grdudally working my way up - nor will it you...!!
Great Comment there from Ian, Lou Coulson should indeed be in the top 10, maybe Gavin Barker should move out and Lou in.
Well done for not having a London agent - One of my former agents was based in the north and got me LOADS of work especially at Granada, YTV etc (again this shows the blinkered approasch by many CDs - they HAVE to use Northern based agents if poss and vice versa in the south - there really is a north/south divide and there is a lot of talent taht is being missed out on !) - my CD friend says that a lot of pressure is put on her and especially on "overheads" casting - which basically means they will trawl the area of "Bristol" for example for actors who live in that area as they are currently doing for the new ITV series "Mistresses", so they do not have to pay overnights and per diems - sad eh !
I don't think it matters as a life and death thing if you are not with one of the big ten, but it certainly helps, avoids being passed over and gives you a far bigger CHANCE of being bought in by the majority of CDs - hey good luck everyone, no matter who your agent is - the old saying goes "It is better to have SOME agent than NO AGENT AT ALL " !
All good points but I have to say, Sovay, I'm really surprised to hear you say that £137k a year isn't a good wage, even before deductions. How much do you expect to earn as a jobbing actor? £100k or say a year is a perfectly acceptable living and certinly not in the 'abject poverty' bracket. Personally I think top actors pay is way over the top, as with sports people, particularly footballers. We and they, when we're working, get to a job we love, yes it's hard work, most jobs are, but we could be digging trenches or cleaning toilets. Those are the jobs that deserve the higher pay. Our Job is a privilege. I think you're going to be pretty disappointed in the long run if you expect to earn more than £137k regularly!
Lx
One of the things that I find difficult as an actor just starting out, is how do you know which of the 'less known' agents are right for you at that particular time. Going with the 'any agent is better than no agent' could lead to an agent that perhaps is terrible at paying wages owed, or will take you on with similar casting on their books (if there is no website etc., you not able to check for clashes yourself) and limiting your chances for audition. I suppose what I'm trying to say, outside of names that are better 'recognised' - and in general, we know who they are -, how do you know which agents are right for you and therefore should be getting in contact with?
I got 2 offers last year after graduating, neither of which were suitable, but I only knew that through personal contacts. I'm doing far greater work marketing myself, applying, calling etc. than they ever would, and I won't have to give them any cut when I secure work. The area where I'm misssing out is the Link etc. and any personal contacts an agent might have. And negotiations on that lucrative commercial that's just round the corner.
Was that rambling?
Nick
PS I use all phrases lightly e.g. 'recognised' - you know what I mean
I'm two-thirds of the way through writing my book for actors at the moment (hence being away so long). If any of you would like the Agent's chapter, send me an email and I'll send you the Word file of the first draft. A little gift as so much free advice came to me when I was starting out. It could be very helpful to newbies particularly? It deals with auditioning for agents, how to get the best relationship with one etc...
This is not rambling Nick. It's what we need to know. I was trying to ask this earlier: WHICH AGENTS ARE SUITABLE FOR YOUNG ACTORS (IN THAT THEY ARE REPUTABLE ENOUGH TO HAVE REASONABLE ACCESS TO THE BUSINESS BUT NOT SO HUGE THAT WE HAVE NO CHANCE OF GETTING ON THEIR BOOKS)?
Somebody must know. If anybody actually does, please list them.
Thankyou for the mails so far guys. Give me till tomorrow as my agent reminded me of a couple of pointers I'd forgotten, to do with showcases etc which I'm adding now (He was very complimentary about the chapter as a whole) I'd very much appreciate your feedback on it once read...
**BY THE WAY, YES, MY TWO SEALY BED TV ADVERTS (DOWNLOADED ONTO MY PAGE) HAVE JUST BEEN BOUGHT FOR ANOTHER YEAR - SO MORE OF MY MANIC COFFEE GUZZLING WILL BE ALL OVER THE NORTH...**
Even with a family to support, I cant undestand why Mr Winston wasnt stuffing away the percentage it takes to cover him, come each Tax Return. (Not as if he can't live on the remainder) !!!
Well in the tax year ending 1987 and my first year trading as a professional actor my gross earnings were about £12000 since then they have ranged from a £350 to about 10000. So I am not talking about what I expect to earn but what the realities of a jobbing actors earnings are.
I am also not saying that 13000 per annum is a crap wage. However over a 20 or 30 year period of earning 13000 at most, this can become at times grinding poverty. And this is the reality of what 98% of actors earn.
Fantastic Response and really sums it up, this has been the whole threads point - yes, you can earn as a "jobbing" actor and maybe even make a living out of it without doing other work if you have say an agent rated 10 -50, but to have REAL earning power and not take on other employment, you are so right with the 98% and 2% - this I think draws this thread to a natural close
only just seen this discussion so apologies for late response. this whole business of Cds only seeing actors from top 10 agencies has been bugging me for yonks (work as agent too so know this to be true in at least 3 instances). there is one in particular (no names but Hotel Babylon is the clue...) who has NEVER ONCE called anyone from my agency despite offering high profile names and top experience. I have an idea in the way of a friendly protest. need lots of support cos then we can contact press! anyone interested email me.
In my opinion, despite being relatively new they're probably one of, if not the, top agent in london.
They don't even have a bloomin website so you could check them out, but they poached some incredible talent when they formed. In fact I remember the fuss it kicked up made The Stage after the former head of icm left and poached a variety of top agents from around london to set up ARG. They also have very very strong links out in LA, my brother is signed with ARG and they helped get him signed with ICM in Los Angeles aswell as bagging him one of the top managers out there whos name I forget...
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