Drama school - To go or not to go? How old's too old to go?

Just a quick ask around to gather people's opinions about drama school really.

First of all, how old is considered too old to go to drama school?

Secondly, who believes it actually helps ALL that much?

I can safely say I have two sides to the latter argument.

I have many actor friends who have gone to drama school, and many who haven't. I can safely say that on average, the drama school educated friends are in no better a position than the ones who didn't go. It seems to me that those who have gone to drama school, are now in exactly the same position as those that haven't (i.e, struggling to get auditions and get work).

Furthermore, in support of the 'not-going-to-drama-school route', how many huge Hollywood actors can you name that have gone to drama school. I would say it's roughly 40:60 in favour of not going to drama school at that level. Most of the really big actors (Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, etc) never went.

My argument for going to drama school is getting West End work. I reckon it's practically impossible for non-drama school educated fellows to get work in the West End; that makes sense to me.

Also, I attended a big audition recently for a TV series and the woman asked me "which drama school" I went to. When I said I hadn't been, she looked at me like I was a piece of poo (I'm not being paranoid; she really did). Once she'd realised how she'd reacted, she over compensated a little and became extra nice to me, but it definitely worked against me in that instance. It should be noted that this woman was pretty old, and seemed quite old-fashioned - whenever I have auditions with younger people, they don't even ask about drama school.

So... there's the questions...

Drama school - for or against?
And when's too late to go?

Cheers.

:-)


  • 16 years ago
  • 63,359
  • 47

Sophie is spot on. The harsh truth is that many times, there are some useless people in shows who are totaly wrong yet the statud symbol of a drama school etc or a contact got them seen. Now we would all like that indeed, but the point is that you as a person are not necessarily lacking ....... and how does one explain GOOD Hollywood actors etc who have had no drama school training and are amazing????


  • 16 years ago
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Cheers again. All this info has basically reaffirmed what I thought anyway, but it's good to hear a variation of views and opinions.

Regarding the audition with the old-fashioned casting director, unfortunately I didn't prove her wrong. It was the first time someone had seemed so put off by my non-drama school background and as a result it completely threw my confidence.

As it turns out, I found out the other day that the guy who got the part wasn't drama school trained anyway, so I needn't have worried - I maybe even imagined it in the first place.

Oh well, that's part of why we audition, I guess - to learn from mistakes and be careful not to do it again.


  • 16 years ago
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You prbably just didnt click with her and she clicked with someone else.
Life goes on...


  • 16 years ago
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I don't think drama school is essential in terms of making you a better actor. I think it can help in getting work, however. The best option if you are undecided is to take some short acting courses to give you some focus and decide from there. I have always loved theatre film and television and have watched and read so much about actors approaches that I learnt a lot about acting that way.


  • 16 years ago
  • 24

Yeah, have taken plenty of acting courses and workshops etc. I should probably put them on my CV, but someone told me not to bother specifying.


  • 16 years ago
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Alan Brent
Actor

Whoever said that you shouldn't put training on your cv obviously hasn't had any!
Training shows your commitment to your work. Those who say 'Don't put it on your cv' are those who don't take their craft seriously.
I meet them so regularly. 'I wouldn't join Equity, it does no good' 'I wouldn't go to drama school it's just not worth it. It doesn't do anything for you' All that kind of crap. It says immediately to me that they disrespect me and thousands like me who take no pride in the work they do. But they try to deny the true fact that I will wipe the floor with them at auditions.


  • 16 years ago
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Lee Ravitz
Actor

Interesting last comment, Alan. I think it flags up an essential distinction between acting as 'talent' and acting as 'craft'.

Frankly, although not everyone can be a fantastic actor, many good actors know they have a 'talent' from an early point in their lives. It is true to say that there is no need to go to a drama school in order to try and find your latent talent; if you have to do that, you shouldn't be pursuing a career as an actor. And, because many untrained actors rely on pure 'talent' to get them through the day, they never feel the need to attend a drama school...which is fine, as far as it goes.

But 'craft' in acting is a different issue: to be the kind of actor who responds to the demands of the profession with professionalism (being at calls on time, looking after one's own time constructively); the kind of actor who can run themselves as a business succesfully; the kind of actor who can be open to new experiences continually and offer rewarding things to their fellow actor, all this is 'craft', and a drama school teaching is frequently the best way to learn it. Once upon a time, rep theatre fulfilled a similiar need, but without doubt, the need to go to drama school and 'knock off the rough edges' of natural talent seems more and more important in the modern industry.


  • 16 years ago
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Alan Brent
Actor

Thanks, Lee, for clearing up my words.
There is more to this profession than 'talent'. If we had no talent we wouldn't have been seen as possibles for drama school. The training is exactly as you say. The additional information and development to take 'talent' to 'saleable talent that will endure a tour of 8 shows a week every week for 6 months performing to the best you can do every time you walk on to the stage. The audience pay the same money to see you when you feel crap as they do when you are fresh. So the training kicks in to ensure you are the best you can be every time. The audience deserve that.


  • 16 years ago
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Alan,

The fact is as well that even if you DO wipe the floor with them at an aduition, you may be the best actor in the room and you may still NOT get it!!! There are parts i can do and act better than some, but I just may not be right for the vision the director has- so all the training in the world means at the very least you do a great audition and get remembered, but not that you get the job.

The West end is sometimes about if you LOOK like the person who created the part!!! how many new Christines in PHANTOM have I seen that look slightly like sarah brightman? Or if you fit teh costume?

All im saying is its not always if you do a good audition and while i am pro equity and pro drama school or TRAINING, neither of these may help ultimatley in getting a job!!!!!


  • 16 years ago
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Kenny Richards-Preston
Actor, Singer

What Al and Blake said, training does show.
At the end of the day there's things that can be learned from a school that cannot be learned from experience, however!
If what you are aiming for is films, then personal experience and the ability to bring that to the fore for the camera, doesn't necessarily need acting lessons, there are many amogst us that are able to turn their emotions at the drop of the hat. If you cannot? Then yes, go to a drama school. Most of them nowadays don't have an age limit for individual lessons/group-courses, but you will find accreditted drama teachers (do a background check to find their affilitaion) that can also help with this around your availability.
For theatre, the projection, annunciation, elocution and depth perspective you can learn for the stage is priceless, so again, what Blake and Al said
Regards

Kenny


  • 16 years ago
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Kenny Richards-Preston
Actor, Singer

Another quick addition to Alans last post, I'm sure you're aware of this. It's not just a case of how you feel, but an audience of 5 will expect the same performance from you as an audience of 500,000 (ok that's Sloan Castle, but you get my drift)
Professionalism cannot be taught, only how to act it. If you;re an actor, act it, if you're a singer? Sing it! A teacher can only mould the clay they're given, if that clay is already set then you cannot be taught.
If you feel you need tuition then take lessons, if you've beent old you need it, get several more opinions from other experienced actors, it could just be jealousy or favouritism. Learning anything new, cannot harm you, it can only bring more knowledge.
It's really upto you buddy.

Kenny


  • 16 years ago
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Leila Reid
Actor

If you want to go then do it as if you get in to one of the tops then it looks good on a CV and I have experience with the fact that casting directors are more likely to go with the drama school graduate. I

I also think that it helps you get your foot in the door ad shows that you have applied yourself to something and also it's less luck I know people who have got parts in west end shows but that was complete and utter luck of being in the right place at the right time.

I believe the upper limit for most schools is 35 or rather they say that the rarely take actors over that age.

Leila


  • 16 years ago
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Kenny Richards-Preston
Actor, Singer

Liela is quite right, I believe, with the age limit for the Accreditted Schools, but I know of 2 men in their 50's taking a Btec HND in Performing Arts which holds the equivalency of a BA Hons, so it really is what you wish to take out of it.
They'd retired and gotten the acting bug, and rather than go to their local AmDrams, they decided to take a more serious approach.
Anyway good luck with what you end up doing

Kenny


  • 16 years ago
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At the moment I am in a particularly peculiar position in that I did / didn't go to drama school in as much as I took night school classes at 37 then a Nott's next stage diploma for 2 years which was taught by RADA teachers and run by a RADA director with local county council funding. Strange thing was that nobody of influence was invited to the Showcase given at the end of the course. I am therefore anonymous to agents with little work experience but loads of training. I went on to HND in Performing Arts and a BA hons in F and T with Applied Studies. I managed to get Equity doing Extra's Work and Spotlight on the Merit of two Film projects for a local council four years ago but have not worked since . I really want to work but it seems that no one will touch me with a panto hook; I have even Emailed loads of agents. How do I get a start…any advice would be great! I'm 49 now, desperate to perform and willing to travel anywhere as long as I can pay for the diesel!.
Cheers Paul


  • 16 years ago
  • 34
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Hi Jay,

Sounds like you have been doing even better...well done for getting the casting in the first place.

I have been asking myself this same question for years. I think you have been doing well as it is and you may as well just keep heading in the direction you are going. It's more about how you present in the auditions, you are already getting the auditions you see. Just try and be relaxed and comfortable in the room and with the casting directors and be yourself. As well as the part you are playing they want to see that they can work with you everyday and that you've got a personality. Try not to impress if you get me. I just left my agent of 7 years and within a week had two castings off of spotlight and just secured a P&O Ferry Commerical...so I'm pretty chuffed! :)

Jody Xx


  • 12 years ago
  • 35

I am starting a drama school tomorrow night at the City Academy, Westminster with Cat Clancy. Your never to old and all forms of education can only be of benefit.


  • 12 years ago
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I think its all about believing and being positive.You could go to a big lead role audition and get it just like that! I have been to few big film role auditions and have come very close.I went to a short course last year and it really did nothing for me. I find student projects help me more and give me the training that I need.In my opinion Drama schools are a waste of money.


  • 12 years ago
  • 37
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"The only place where Success comes before Work and experience is in the dictionary."

This debate is taking the exact same route it always takes! Those who have been to drama school swear by it...and those who have not been, and get work...feel it's not necessary.

One who has invested a year or three years in time and many who have invested 30k or more to go to drama school will all tell you how much they got out of it, and I am sure they did....but many of them have no better CV and or work in front of them than anyone else who has not gone.

Had I invested all that time and or money, I'd swear by the drama school route too!

Alan: to say that your training enables you to wipe the floor with those who have not....is a bit of a sweeping generalisation I think? I know 2 well known TV casting directors who have said to me they avoid drama school students like the plague.....true I promise you.....no I am not going to name them!!

I honestly believe it comes down to what sort of work you are chasing. Top west end musical theatre work will almost certainly require a formal training background.....but it will almost certainly require a very good respected drama school course too. RSC National theatre etc....yup I will concede drama school training will initially help you in the early stages of your career over those who have not had any training.

TV and FILM.....no you don't "need" drama school training ....I and many others can prove that time and time again .

At the end of the day, ability and experience, and just being right for the role, will always reign higher than an attendance record and certificate.

I have had to turn down 2 excellent high profle theatre tours this year due to personal circumstances and other commitments.....I have never had any formal training at all. However, both jobs were contemporary work. I am not sure I would be able to walk into a RSC Shakespeare production with a huge degree of confidence though....I am sure I would if I had 3 years of Rada or GSA training behind me. Would the RSC see me without training records.....not sure about that.....probably not initially. I have also seen some very well trained actors put in dire performances at the RSC and or Nat theatre etc.

Natural ability can be built upon without training.....fact! I have personally Auditioned some drama students who were built up to be terribly good and confident by their drama schools as well as their agents and themselves....but I couldn't have or would have given them house room on stage. Others I have done or would do....there is no rules.

The basics of breathing and honing the craft can be gained privately through classes and or one to one tutoring. 3 years drama school fees is a heck of a lot of private classes and invaluable training fees....do the maths and work out the time scale for yourself! 3 solid years v doing it at your own pace and still be able to carry on with life and work.

As I say earlier...i am not chasing the classics and or Shakespeare etc....but I have been offered auditions for them from time to time. I have my own Co to run and more often than not a theatrical tour and commitment would not work financially for me.

So there we are....I do not run down drama schools and or the training they offer.....but to say its the B all and END all is a far too sweeping generalisation to make. It's also mildly pompous too say you cannot do the job unless you have trained....that's been proved wrong a million times!

As far as when its too late.....probably when they are nailing down the lid of your coffin!

Oh and in 23 years....I have never once been asked where I trained or anything to do with it! Its right for some and its not for others....it entirely depends on the individual and their ability and circumstances I'd say.

I leave you with this statement a very experienced director once said to me on a set once when were chatting about the same subject:
"Jacket on = directing.
Jacket off = participating.
Trousers off = performing."

I follow this rule of thumb:
"Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle."

Best to all.


  • 12 years ago
  • 38
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I did an accredited one-year postgraduate course in my 40s. The eldest on the course was 49 or 50, I think. Don't assume there's an age limit just because the course is accredited by the NCDT.


  • 12 years ago
  • 39
Güni Koçak
Actor

Certainly it's up to you. Only you know the right answer. Drama school is not a guarantee to make it the biz.
You mentioned Brad Pitt. In America, actors attend regular classes and learn/improve their craft that way.
Either way, keep learning EVERY DAY! Even if you read a play or read books about acting or learn a monologue or learn a new skill.
I auditioned this year for 3 drama schools, got into one, but afterwards changed my mind and said NO WAY!
There is a misconception that is floating around making actors paranoid. "Oh no, I didn't go to drama school and I must be bad." You get self-conscious.
You don't get a job offered just because you went to drama school xyz. It might be a foot in the door, but won't give you the role.
Focus instead of becoming a better actor, and especially in auditioning. Go to classes and/or get private tuition. Ask yourself what you really want and go after it. Stop comparing yourself to others who went to drama school or didn't. I said enough. All the Best!
G :)


  • 12 years ago
  • 40
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