I finish a student film a while back, and guess what? I call them and text them about the copy that they need to give me, and they hang up on me on the phone!
How have people dealt with this when the students dont cough up?
Apart from breaking of kneecaps and maiming of course...as tempting as it is.....
Working for free to gain experience is an essential part of starting out as an actor, it is the only way to get work in the early years. I do think though, that more professional, experienced actors should stop offering their services for nothing because it does exacerbate the situation. Apart from anything else, in my experience, working with students rarely gives you anything to aid you as an actor anyway, therefore rendering the excercise a complete waste of time. Students work well with other students as there's a common goal, once the scales are tipped it's not so rewarding.
Lx
I'm sorry, Alex, that you feel so badly about helping the students in their endeavours to become directors of the future.
Please bear in mind that it is at the formative stage of their careers that they absorb the most and that their experiences now guage their actions in the future.
It is only by educating them that we can ever expect improvememnts. So to 'blank' them or refuse to work with them is a massive negative to start with.
I urge you to look at the other side of the coin. Get in touch with your Equity Branch and get them to visit the Film Schools in order to bring some level of understanding about what we expect from doing work for them, working to contracts, providing showreels, expenses etc. Having read a lot of the discussion we are all too ready to 'rubbish' their efforts and yet no-one has any decent suggestions on how this situation can be improved. This is why Leeds and District Branch has taken this positive affirmative action.
It works. We have proof!
I do think there is a crucial difference between small jobs etc and also staying in a certain place.
My feeling is that student films are a good resource in many ways, but at the same time, proper on camera classes are probably better than a student film.
Working for nothing applies to profit share becasue people NEVER make much profit usually, but i do think its wrong to say never do something for free. Robert De Niro is recorded as having done many off Broadway jobs for little or no money and eventually he got seen and noticed..I m not comparing myself to De Niro, but just the principle....
But I can see this becoming an argument on line cos there are so many strong opinions..so I will bow out now....
Ok, well we're not as lucky as you to get paid work while still training! Of course you don't HAVE to, but come on, how else WILL you get any experience before you're hired professionally? There's nothing wrong with it at all, but only to a point, you have to cross the line to professionalism at some point. But 99% of actors have found themselves working for free at one time or another. Just the lucky few that don't I guess!
Lx
ps; not arguing btw, just saying!
I think it's a question of what you're happy with.
For example a few years ago my old agent rubbished my experience (even though I'd scored my first TV role while still at uni) and said I had to do student films.
In a way it felt I was going backwards.
So, when I was going for the films it was with a niggling sense of "I shouldn't have to do this" and that certainly I shouldn't have to pay for the privelige.
Consequently what were pretty rough experiences were even worse. I think in hindsight I shouldn't have done it, and stood up for my beleif in myself.
Earlier this year I decided to update my showreel, so back on the student film merrygoround I went.
This time I was more positive (although the lovely wadge of cash I got for my BBC work was looming large in my mind) in looking at films. I chose to do unpaid work in my hometown, so travel wasn't so expensive, and also applied to the film schools with Equity minimum agreements.
Although the student films were pretty ropey, and don't really form much of the showreel, I did meet an excellent (older) filmmaker and we set about collaborating. As a result I have a nice shiny showreel, and a few more credits. I also learnt an awful lot about screen acting from the filmmaker (something which doesn't seem to happen on student films)which has helped me grow as a performer.
However, I won't be doing it again!
I could probably catalogue to disasters I've had on student shoots, but I shan't. Instead I'll say that only you really know if it's right for you...
Just like to mention that Equity is in the process of writing an information booklet on no pay/low pay films. I do wish they would hurry up and produce it, but such is the slow process of a democratic union. First it has to be written with lots of advice from Equity's legal team. Then Equity council have to approve it or recommend changes. Then it has to be rewritten and so on and so on….
Anyway I am sure we will all find it invaluable once it arrives.
There have also been recent changes in the Law introducing a Minimum Pay Directive making it illegal for film companies to ask actors to work for nothing. Of course we actors can still choose to work for nothing but if we know a film is being funded and the actors are not being paid we can now do something about it.
Also I have done 3 none paid projects in my 20 years of working as an actor. One was a theatre profit share and we all got to see the books at the end of the run plus get enough money to cover our travel expenses. The other two were student fills which both won awards. So I would not criticise any one for working for no money.
However as I said in my 2005 Equity ARC speech on motion 36 "I do get cross about the increasing number of short films being produced with funding from Regional Arts Boards, Regional Film Commissions and Local Authorities. In funding these projects in most cases no account is taken in budgeting for the payment of actors used in these productions". It makes my blood boil. But thanks to the recent changes in the law we can now do something about this.
TRACEY BRIGGS
Equity Midland Area Committee member
Former Secretary Equity Birmingham General Branch (2003 - 2006)
It's nice to see that some of us are responding to this problem with positive action, Tracey. Many others just stand around bitching about a subject whilst others are spurred to action to sort it out.
Well put.
i completed one a few weeks ago (expecting dvd any day now- honestly!)
and they kept changing locations! which wasnt that bad, but after id spent nearly two hours travelling. they said to call them when i arrived . i did, they said "oh hang on" went away for a while, and came back telling me they'd changed teh location and i had to go somewhere else! lol i didnt even know where it was! it took me ages asking directions, if they had told me earlier i could have done a net search
i know this can happen in any role, not just student films. but i just wonder if i hadnt phoned, would they have let me know they were shooting in a completely different place?
oh im going to admit something now i feel so horrid saying
i dropped out of a student film once when they nearly finished filming!
i felt so awful! i never fell out with the crew. and i even went to the screening of the finished movie (with my replacement actor) lol
but it was a script i didnt like that much (i cant say it too nasty on the net, in case they read it)
its a swizz though, cos it won an award at a festival afterwards too! lol serves me right though i guess, i felt awful dropping them in it! it was their final piece too!
That sounds very, very interesting...and very, very positive.
BUT...(and I suppose this is implicit in what you said , Tracey)...
Student films surely won't come under any of this jurisdiction. They aren't made by 'film companies', but are 'educational' coursework (in effect), and the films are not themselves budgeted for (so, no, the students don't get paid anything for shooting them, of course, as it's all part of their course). So, we'll still have exactly the same problems underlying our working with students on films - and I assume Alan's style of solution will always be the only real way forward. To come up with voluntary agreements with the university authorities that an equity minimum will be paid out to the actors as a 'goodwill' gesture. This presumably cannot be enshrined legally (after all, any payment a university would make to us would have to come out of feepayers pockets somewhere), and so it becomes, in effect, an entirely discretionary affair. If I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, and we could somehow get Equity to *ensure* that all colleges/universities running media courses would pay the actors that worked for their students, please let me know!
Hi Guys,
Thought it was about time I added my two pence worth to this debate. I have only ever done one student film. This was with Bristol University. I have to say that they treated me with great respect and were very quick at sending me a completed copy of the film.
Being very new to being infront of the camera for a lead role, I used this time to learn, not only about acting for the camera, but also about different angles, shots, technical sayings, etc, etc. This was my first true experience of being on set for more than one day. I had only just graduated from drama school, and however good my school was, it could not possibly give me this experience.
I learnt so much from that student film, that drama school had not prepared me for. Perhaps I was just lucky but I truly enjoyed the whole experience. I also hope that I taught those students to treat their actors with respect. The way I did this, was by giving THEM respect, and encouragement. Yes, of course they f..... up a few times and they kept apologising to me. I told them not to worry about keeping me hanging around while they sorted their problems out as I was there to do a professional job whatever. At the end of the 4 days, everyone of those students said that they had learnt a lot about how to treat actors with respect and consideration. I feel really proud that perhaps I might have shown them how to behave once they are out there in the big wide world.
I bet you are all thinking 'self-rightous bitch'. Sorry, I only speak as I find. I doubt I will ever do another student film but the one I did do, taught me a lot.
Alexandra has put precisely what it needs to get the best out of the experience. By her learning she also taught!
Tracey and I shall have to confer about some motion to the Equity ARC in May 2007 to get Equity involved in the Student film making process to protect members. This will be done! I guarantee it.
Alan
I believe student films can come under this jurisdiction however it is the collage not the students that could be in breach of this new law, if the collage is asking students to use professional actors as part of their course work. After all if you were ask to work as a guest tutor for no payment the collage is breaking this new law. But please cheque this with Equity staff as I could be wrong.
I think I probably put my post in the wrong thread as it is very much the film companies with funding that should now be paying actors. And it is this situation that makes me cross not student films. I feel if we pursue collages for payment this will result in an increase in fees paid by the students. Or professional actors would no longer be used.
Student films are a much more grey area. Most actors do not expect to be paid for working with students but feel aggrieved when they do not get a copy of the film. So I personally think it would be much more useful for Equity to provide a student film contract that all the colleges could work on. I also agree Alan style of solution is a good way forward.
Ultimately it is important that all Equity members get involved with their local branch to affect change. There was an Equity Low/pay no pay symposium organised in London earlier this year which very few people attended. Also we had Andy Prodger Equitys Assistant General Secretary as a guest speaker a few months ago here in Birmingham. Andy was covering the new television agreement; lowpay/no pay films and student films. Again very few Equity members attended this meeting.
I dont think he'll mind me mentioning his name, but Joseph Steyne started working on my film at the end of December and came up on the train to participate.
For his travels I gave him a cheque immediately.
It may seem like a stonewall idea, but if I was an actor and I was promised the money, I would demand that every time I came up my expenses immediately.
That way I would never be out of pocket, because guess what I shouldn't be.
I think that student films are a great outlet, and I have met many actors who are in agreement with me. People coming out theatre and going into films are not going to get the kind of roles they wont straight of the bat, but a student film can allow this role.
It's nothing to be scoffed at, but I think, just like we do on the production side, actors need to have a plan of attack ready, so that they have means and justification to remove themselves from the project if something unjust happens.
but sometimes it is worth not getting expenses for! some roles i have refused the expenses cos i enjoyed it so much and i got som egreat material and made good friends with the producers/directors.
but sometimes i feel actors just get used so the student can get their prohect finished on time, handed in, marked and then on to the next thing.
i recently finished another student project. great stuff though. the gal was SO nice and us two cast members really enjoyed it. some good comedy material too. which i havent done yet so im looking forward to seeing me in a different role!
The reality is that you are one of the professional ones. When people attack student films its definitely a gross generalisation because its the general experience.
YOur willingness to tow the line with actors simply means that actors will want to work with you again.
I also agree that many actors do not insists on money, but this is becasue most students immediately say they cant pay at all.
It's maybe that I'm a student with priorities, and therefore I've kept my money. :)
It amazes me though if students say they can't afford it, then they shouldn't be able to go to the pub three times a week, buy new clothes every other week, and continually restock their Xbox360 collection.
I wish I had more time out, I wish I had more nice clothes, and my dvd collection could be much bigger, but I really really wish I can get this film made, and I really really wish that myself and Luke and Mike my two crew chiefs get jobs off of it, but if one of Joseph, Sammy (Samantha Dale), Evan (Evan Locke) Lynsey or David (Lockwood) get work because of me that would be just as vindicating.
Like I said- a student with maturity, a sense of responsibility, a sense of other people existing in the world, and it seems- a very sharp observer of life.
You could make more money (and thus suppliment your monastic lifestyle) by going round film schools lecturing : demonstrating how to work WITH actors, and how good the results are when you realise they're not unpaid talking props.
As far as I'm aware this part of their education seems to be lacking.
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