Why is it that just about three out of every four ads for work are either unpaid, low paid or deferred payment/no paid!??
I have done some unpaid work that has compounded into a reasonable showreel. But why do directors/ producers spend a FORTUNE on equipment and crew and then expect us to do the most important part (i.e. make their film script and film work) with no reward?
I know actors who will jump at any opportunity to get in front of a lens. It doesn't matter that they are crap actors or that they can't remember their lines. But to do it for nothing, often having to pay most of their own expenses puzzles me beyond belief!
What are your views?
Answering the question 'Where have I gone?' is easy...I can't get a word in!!
What a fantastic debate!! I think that two major points can be covered.
1/ We work for students film makers for nothing..OK? But why are they NOT using the Student Film Contract that Equity provides them with? Could it be no-one told them about it?
2/ Commercial new starters in the Industry. With Equity saying that no member should work on a deferred payment contract there is no Equity contract to cover this area. Maybe it should be a matter for Equity Council to explore and make a positive contribution to directors/producers trying to break into the scene?
However on a personal note I genuinely believe that where abuse of our talents and training are manifesting themselves that THIS forum is the ideal place to name and shame them. But CCP won't accept that. They can edit out the names of companies in these slots if they so wish. So maybe we should ask them to allow genuine abuse statements as a warning to others. That way we can protect ourselves.
Going back to 1/. At our University of Film and Television I give an annual address to students on 'Working with Actors'. A simple lecture with questions at the end. In it I cover just about all of the comments above. Feed us. Clothe us. Keep us warm when it's cold. Keep us cool when it's hot. AND REMEMBER if you are making a living from film, do not expect me to contribute my talents for nothing! I give them a list of the Equity minima so they can peruse it and inwarcly digest how much we are worth at a minimum.
Then I demonstrate how an unaccomplished actor can screw up a shot with ease. Then I'll ask 'What would it now cost you to repeat that scene because of that incident?'
Do you know, it makes them think more about the quality of the actor and how much time, effort and film stock they can waste with non pros.
As for Reality TV I'm not a fan. By the way Equity made sure all the candidates in 'Maria' were treated with respect and looked after. It was their effort to stop any abuse or lack of care and attention to the losing contestants.
But it was done with the only weapon Maggie Bloddy Thatcher left us when she ended the closed shop. EDUCATION. We have to educate the people we work with! 'No I won't work for no pay!' is a statement a lot of you say. 'I will work for you but I expect the following if you are not budgetting for me, followed by a list of results you expect. Food, travel costs, comfy bed for the night AND EDIT MY SHOWREEL. Something like that.
We also need to educate Equity Councillors and let THEM know how we feel.
OK so we know that there is abuse in film contracts. Equity cannot act unless it is an Equity contract. So let's have a deffered payment contract, a low pay contract and a No pay contract if need be. Then at least we'll have protection from the abuse we often find. Then we have the choices everyone thinks is so important.
Would you agree?
If the LFC social is going to get hijacked by the politians amongst us I for one won't be coming...
The LFC is a social evening (emphasis on the word "social") and a bloody good one at that...If the polititians want to have a political meeting to draft letters to all unsundry then go ahead and call your own meeting...but don't do it on my drinking time...'cos then it will get bloddy!!
quite simply Alan? well put.
Auday? Not a chance for the lastfriday meet, I am working and it's really too far to travel. I've suggested a central location like Nottingham if anyone wants to take this debate and do something about it, or rather, plan something to do somehting about it lol!
A plan of action is necessary, and I agree completely with Alan here, contracts need to be put in place for all types of filming, to protect both the artiste and the producers.
I still feel strongly in limiting how many lo/no budget films a film-maker is allowed to produce, but to recomend that they are abolished is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.
Nice post Alan and great debate guys
Richard, that deserves an applause mate. Ok going to meet Drew, look forward to catching up with this after we go through it in depth. A couple of other points to consider but |I thikn we're on the right tracks now. Could do with Alex's opinion on this, as he is very anti freebie and my nemesis in this debate hehe!
But if this is a mutual comprimise that limits the abuse yet gives those willing to work for lo/no for personal reasons or for gift of charity, well, it gives them the industry backing and protects their interests.
Bye for now
Im pretty sure the equity student film contract only applies to film schools. There are only a few actual film schools around. London Film Academy being one and also London Film School, also the New York Film School and The NFTS who have a definite agreement with Equity. Most film degrees/courses where they need actors are not taught at film schools. I guess we can always start asking them at the castings if they are using these equity agreements and try and pressure them that way but Im quite sure it only applies to film schools. Its worth a try for us to all start asking though.
This is realy good stuff. Thank you all for these terrific comments. However if you discuss these points do bear in mind that if you go to your Branch meetings or get in touch with your branch secretaries that the only way you can force your opinion on Equity to do anything is to put a motion to the Representative Conference where, if it is passed with a two thirds majority it is BINDING on Council to implement it.
By all means get together in enclaves to draft out how to put it over in its best light. But your committee should be pushed to put the motion and your representatives at the ARC should have the information needed to put it over.
Thanks for all this debate. I will be putting it to my members at our AGM on Saturday for them to consider and put together a motion, if they agree.
I'm totally with Forbes on this regarding the LFC. The whole purpose of it is to have a relaxed evening with like minded performers. It's not the correct place to be putting together political manifestos!
With regards working for nothing. It's not going to stop. We can all moan, bitch, gripe, whine, whinge, whatever. The fact is that low budget films will continue to be made. Profit share/fringe theatre productions will still be produced.
You have a choice as an actor. You can either work on a low/no budget productions or not.
""With regards working for nothing. It's not going to stop. We can all moan, bitch, gripe, whine, whinge, whatever. The fact is that low budget films will continue to be made. Profit share/fringe theatre productions will still be produced.
You have a choice as an actor. You can either work on a low/no budget productions or not""
Well said Mike :)
and yes I agreee that anyone can talk about what they want to over a pint of beer but the LFC is a socail relaxed event perhaps if people want to create local meetings to discuss these issues further?
Yes I have read this thread and the countless number of other similar such threads posted here, on the Stage forum and on any other forum where actors meet. Nothing new has been said. The only differences between this and all of the previous threads is the political undercurrent and the length of some of the replies!
With regard to the LFC, of course people can talk about whatever they want. That's the whole point of the evening. It's a bit of fun at the end of the month. However what I didn't like was the suggestion that this discussion should be the focus of the evening.
There has been a terrific suggestion made that we should boycott all those sites who only seem to advertise no pay jobs and to withdraw subscriptions from them. This would certainly make them sit up and take notice. Explaining the reason for doing so and making them realise that they should vet their casting calls so that the sites begin to understand what they are doing.
This would include sites like TalentCircle (who I left after months and months of no work, StarNow, Shooting People etc.
If you're NOT keen to do that then an alternative would be to reply to ALL no/low pay jobs with a genuine reply for the job, cv attached and everything, and say AS A FINAL SENTENCE 'But I will not work for nothing, some fee must be paid because I am a professional actor and my living depends on it!'
How does that sound?
I seem to have SUGGESTED something that has been misconstrued and upset a few people. I'm sorry for this. I do remember only suggesting meeting at the LFC. I did also suggest, in one of my previous posts, that we could meet at a later point. I thought it would be a practical opportunity, where a good few CCP members would be able, and were already scheduled, to come together and do something practical. By that I don't mean debate anymore. I mean actually start to write something and make plans to at least try to salvage our careers. I hoped that we could move things forward and we were just starting to as well. Let's not get sidetracked again and miss the point.
Mike - I take on board your comments but that really isn't the issue for me here. I think it's the worry of where our industry is headed. Regardless of whether or not you choose to do unpaid etc work. I agree that it's your own choice to do it, or not, and I make my choices the same as everyone else. For me, it's more about the ratio of unpaid to paid work within our industry currently, not whether you do it or not.
Alan - that's great you're taking things forward.
Kenny - How did it go last night? I'd be more than happy to meet in say Nottingham about this.
Again.. I'm sorry if I've upset anyone.
Xx Shannon
How did it go last night?
Well let me explain that Drew and I have been friends a long time, we've worked on stage and screen both paid and unpaid, though with the latter that was only film never the stage (unless it's charity) We both have had similar backgrounds where basically anything we've wanted to do we've had to work for ourselves to achieve. 22 years of friendship and we couldn't agree on anything other than something needs to be done hehe!
As far as the LFC, it was mentioned but I wouldn't have turned a chill night into a debate if I was paid to, I understand why it was mentioned but for something like this, IF it's going to be done at all, needs to be planned, organized and done right. We may not achieve anything by it however, I'm sure others have tried, but like I have said and many others share the sentiment, it's personal choice in the end whether you work for free or not. I merely brought a compromise into it that seemed to be well received. If enough people would like to try something then like I said, it needs to be done properly.
Even though I think there's no harm to your career at all to participate in a lo/no pay deferred production, I can genuinely see how it can damage the industry and the profession in other ways.
Enjoy your friday wish I could be there, have a couple for me just remember it's a relaxation night.
Grin*
and say AS A FINAL SENTENCE 'But I will not work for nothing, some fee must be paid because I am a professional actor and my living depends on it!'
How does that sound?
The reason for sending in applications for no pay/low pay/ deferred pay/ profit share with all the details is so that the advertisers get 'swamped' with quality actors. Their problem is then to go through the entire list to find one who will work for nothing OR compromise and offer payment.
A few advertisers WILL get the message and the blaggers will just get p****d off!
It's time we moved on to ACTION. So let's start a new posting under the Title 'What are we gonna do about nopay?
Ok, I will start this ball rolling, this will appear on a few threads, basically becuase some will be bored with this one however compelling it became.
I am gonna make a list of all those wishing to take part in something that may or may not change FILM-MAKING for good, it will not abolish no/lo films however, as I believe everyone needs to start somewhaere but it will limit how many get made per film-maker. Those that answer the thread "A Time for Change?" Will be contacted with an email upon replying will be put into a network book so everyone involved can be reached at once, hence taking less time.
I hope thoise who took an interest in this thread and those especially that want protection from freebie abuse (where payment is mentioned but never gained) will join.
Thanks
As a student filmmaker I've seen what happens when you hire poor actors, and this year the whole of my group are doing our FYPs, and we need to be solid across the board.
Now I understand the cries to abolish no-paid or low paid work, but for me, I don't have the money to say here is £500; be in my film. While I understand this can create a bit of strife with some actors, others as have mentioned, jump at it.
The two points which I have come to believe are 1;
If an actor is doing it for no money they should not lose any money. In my productions I will attempt to reimburse all travel expenses, as long as someone doesn't exploit by suddently acquiring a taste for limo taxis.
2;
We're not the only ones benefitting from all this. I did auditions for COLD yesterday, and two of the four people I met were theatre actors trying to break into film. These people want and need a showreel, and until that point may find it tricky to get a job that pays, and can use us to get said reel. They're using us as much as we're using them.
I agree it's a sensitive subject, but as with everything everyone should do what they're comfortable with.
You must login as a candidate to participate in the forum.
Please note:Messages written in the forum do not represent the views of The Mandy Network, nor have they been vetted by The Mandy Network staff.
If you read something which you believe to be offensive or defamatory, please contact us and we will take the appropriate action.
