Fee or lack of

  • David Laurence

    Actor

    I know its a competitive industry, but when is a fee not a fee.When does it go from being a job offer to an insult . I recently saw a job which entailed a casting day , a half days rehearsal, a days filming & buy out , all for £300.00. Id love peoples views on this.

    • 31st Aug 2015
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  • Sue Parker-Nutley

    Actor

    Well, for some I am guessing, £300 could be the difference between eating or not for at least couple of months! If the job wasn't a commercial, then £300 would be more than NMW for what you have mentioned, so not really an insult. If the job WAS a commercial, then that's a whole different kettle of fish. It also depends on whether the credit looks good on the CV, how new the actor/actress is to the industry (needing to gain credits), etc.

    Sue

    • 19th Aug 2015
    • 1
  • Richard Dawes

    Actor

    i personally do find that alot of adverts on here aren't paid, also things such as production tours . . . That i believe to be unacceptable, as then people have to pay out for 3 months work just to get something on their CVs! I don't understand people can believe this to be acceptable, people are being taken advantage of, speically if individuals are getting to the point where they feel like they cannot get work and would take anything just to be creative and in touch with the performing world.

    Student films i understand and definitely have a place on this site, infact this is mainly what i use the website for.

    • 19th Aug 2015
    • 2
  • David Laurence

    Actor

    Well Sue , the job in question started with ,well known music artist. So you think great, there has to be a reasonable budget to begin with.A budget that is surely paying everybody else a respectable wage. £300 might sound great until you actually break it down.You have a casting which you will probably have to allow a half day , plus travel costs .Then you have a half day/days rehearsal no mention of travel expenses . Finally a days filming , which i pretty much expect will be a 10-12 hour affair to gather all the footage needed. Then of course there is a buy out , meaning you will never get another penny , no matter how many times its used.

    And when you consider that theres also the tax to be taken out as well, the original fee isn't really that great.

    Don't get me wrong , this is not a big angry rant . I enjoy doing stuff on a low budget. I know there are people on here, who with a ltd budget have created mini masterpieces for film festivals, online virals etc .I myself was lucky enough to work with some very talented students from a film school, who's film Flesh Art got shown at Fright fest in London.

    It was an absolute privilege to be involved in the project . The school paid me the correct rate for the days i filmed, they fed me & invited me to the screening in London .

    The difference between their short film and the advert i heave mentioned , is their film was never about profit, it was about being creative.So of course we all expected that the money probably wasn't going to great.However when it comes to commercial ventures , then surely the same rules should not be applied.

    • 20th Aug 2015
    • 3
  • Sue Parker-Nutley

    Actor

    Of course, at the end of the day the choice is ours as to whether we apply for the job or not. You obviously didn't apply for this particular shoot, but many other actors will have applied as they would have considered that £300 was an OK rate. You will rarely see the higher end jobs on CCP anyway - they all appear on Spotlight and only a certain percentage of Agents see the very top breakdowns anyway.

    Sue

    • 20th Aug 2015
    • 4
  • Robert Carretta

    Actor

    Hi folks,yes most of the higher paid jobs have gone to Spotlight first, I know its tempting when you need that job and are starving but peeps reading this,draw a line - please don't do low paid commercials. If there are no actors applying for the money offered , it means the carrot they are dangling isn't big enough ,otherwise the carrot will be non existent soon

    !

    • 20th Aug 2015
    • 5
  • Dan Gregory

    Actor

    Very poor offer but better than this! www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/advert-asks-for-actors-to-promote-millionaire-footballer-steven-gerrards-autobiography-book--for-no-pay-10460996.html?origin=internalSearch

    • 20th Aug 2015
    • 6
  • David Laurence

    Actor

    Thats pretty much where i was going with this post.It used to be a decent wage for many jobs, but it went from decent to reasonable & now its down to OK .An OK wage is a compromise and thats not OK, because people make huge sacrifices to continue to work in this industry , & they deserve just a little bit better from the people who employ them .Nobody who is here on this site is greedy or money hungry.People love what they do, but you still have to be able to earn enough to live.

    • 21st Aug 2015
    • 7
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    Re Dan's link to unpaid actors wanted to promote Gerrard's book for no pay: not only is the no pay insulting, so is the brief which called for an elderly man and a young attractive woman aged 18-30. Both these aspects just really annoy me so much.

    • 22nd Aug 2015
    • 8
  • David Laurence

    Actor

    Yes there are a few failings in casting briefs.I saw one last week which read , must be real people ! What, as apposed to fake people.I suppose one of the things that annoys me with castings in general , is the age limitation placed on them.I miss out on things that happen to be a year either side of my real age.Now i don't know , maybe its me , but isn't that what acting is supposed to be about, playing a role. Ive never played rugby, but I've been cast in several things as a rugby player . The restrictive age range is a huge problem when applying for roles, because I've seen a lot of things i could of cast for , or at least applied for , but been unable to .

    • 23rd Aug 2015
    • 9
  • Michelle Ashton

    Actor

    £300 for a music video is actually not a bad rate compared to what I've seen. £100-£150 seems to be the average for the days filming including the buyout. I generally don't apply for them unless I happen to be in the area. Having said that, I once saw one on Spotlight for a very high profile artist that was expenses only! A commercial of course is completely different. £300 really would be an insult.

    • 27th Aug 2015
    • 10
  • Carli Fish

    Actor

    Is it just me or is the pay for music videos getting even worse than normal? There's one up at the moment for an 'established international' act that's offering £55 for the job. Didn't one pop up for The Libertines recently too? Stating that it would be a long, physically demanding day but only offering low pay? I don't mind low budget videos for up-and-coming bands but it always seems to be for quite big or well-known acts, to the point where the listing normally brags about the popularity of the singer/band involved as a selling point for the role. I understand that means good exposure (normally a lot of exposure if it's a female role...) but I always end up wondering why, if the act is so successful, they can't offer more money.

    • 27th Aug 2015
    • 11
  • Robert Carretta

    Actor

    Ive seen these music video castings too recently Carli-I couldn't believe it-it'll get to the point where they start charging the actors to appear in things. The music artist ,Carli ,may not even know about the fee for another performer in something like a music video though-its the Producer/production company who are ripping off the actor. Just say No..and watch the money grow !. Don't apply for these low/no pay jobs for brands/commercials who hope to directly make money from your work peeps!

    • 27th Aug 2015
    • 12
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Hi still fighting my little corner on the low pay/ no pay issue. Just finished the accounts for this years music festival here in the North and I am pleased to report 60 musicians went away with a smile on their face ! They represented the biggest bill. ( not the after thought !) Without them you ain`t got a show - end of !

    • 27th Aug 2015
    • 13
  • Steel Wallis

    Actor

    What's interesting about under paid music videos is the amount of ranting musicians do about getting their money out of royalties, and streaming rights ie the Taylor Swift - Spotify and Apple Music shenanigans.

    But Commercials have to pay. As mentioned earlier, we all have to decline the non existent buyouts. I recently had a cold offer to do an advert, they offered me £200, I decline. They then asked me to come in and read if they put the fee up to £250 a day and a £2k buy out.. Still not the best offer in the world but on the right track,, Stick to your principles and be respected.

    • 28th Aug 2015
    • 14
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    Nice one Steel. If we all did this, I think the profession would be in a better place.

    • 28th Aug 2015
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  • David Laurence

    Actor

    Its been good to hear other peoples opinions on this subject, it all makes me feel a little less isolated . We all fear that by questioning fees, we will perhaps be branded difficult or greedy, when more often than not it is the complete opposite. I appreciate that companies have to make profits and stick within budgets.I know that times are tough for people producing their first project, making their way in a very difficult business. The plain truth of the matter is though , that i just want a reasonable wage for my time and effort on a project. If its a low/ no budget project by a student or first time film maker , then of course i know ill be lucky to get travel and dinner. But when things are of a more commercial nature , then it should be treated as a proper job with proper rates. Its that simple . Its not me being greedy or unreasonable is it ? Thanks to everybody for the input .

    • 29th Aug 2015
    • 16
  • Brian Croucher

    Actor

    What is the difference between jobs......time put in and money offered ....

    actors are not available to fulfill all projects without a very reasonable payment. Don't let them take the p///. We as actors, are the only people who can stop this unreasonable behaviour......have some respect for your talents!! BC

    • 30th Aug 2015
    • 17
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Brian is right. Earlier this year when involved with booking the bands/ solo acts for this years festival I was quite staggered at the number of people who contacted me to offer their services for free ! Some were quite bemused when I explained that sadly should you be engaged to perform, part of our terms and conditions was to accept money ! The point being of course if you play for free you are really making the industry weaker. and making life more tenuous for other actors/entertainers. It is interesting to note that the committee who ran our festival this year are all performers themselves. We all have been on both sides of the counter! Obviously the Event has to be paid for, so the budgeting schedule is crucial. As I said earlier the performers are the backbone of the Festival and not an afterthought. When we set the budget the first consideration was the performers themselves followed by the stages which displays the style of concert and then the children's entertainers. After that came the rest ie: bars/ security/fencing/ marquee hire/ generators/ /toilets/ first aid etc.

    To sustain the profession there has to be a consolidation in the entertainment industry and not just Equity as its voice, Its down to the individual and how they value their own talent. The grey area is of course the fringe theatre and student films. That is why I would like time to be set aside in drama courses and film-maker courses to explore how funding through grants can be achieved. Surprisingly, there is a range of grants available but they tend to require some research..

    Finally, just as a tip for anyone thinking about putting on any show; do the bar yourself ! Don`t sub it out, it generates a lot of profit to offset costs !

    • 30th Aug 2015
    • 18
  • Emmy McMorrow

    Actor

    Hey all,

    I'm totally with boycotting all commercials and VO jobs that the the p*ss . Commercials DO have the money and they are merely putting greed out into the universe.

    Just something to add to the feed about music videos from a different perspective. I have a friend who's bands done pretty well; main stages @ international festivals, playing on TV chat show in their native country (US) etc. He says there's no money in music anymore (since napster, streaming etc ). I was shocked that he couldn't buy a house, have loads of savings etc

    So I think to some extent this has - or must have filtered down into the amount of budget a label gives to a film company to produce the video. Some of the bands advertised are at a similar level to the above, or I find out they are after other friends have been cast or auditioned.

    Yes if it's someone like Madonna or Jesse J - a major pop act - a money machine - because let's face it most pop is not art it's pure $£ - yes that's different & a complete p*ss take. That's merely lining the fatcat execs pockets and we all need to take a stand. Yes - even newcomers who need to build their CV. I've been there - didn't get my first PAID acting job for 4 yrs after graduating from Guildhall. This may be my experience but casting directors don't really see a music video as 'experience ' as much as the many, wonderfully talented student filmmakers on here with no pay projects.

    While I'm here - regarding music etc - Google Whitey (a musician) and his cutting response to a film company who asked to use his music for free .

    I identified with it a lot as an actor. He says stuff like "No it's not that there's 'no money left in the budget for the music' it's that you have chosen for it to be broken down as such... the cleaners who clean your location after shooting - they will get paid, the drivers, the caterers, but the musician? Give him nothing."

    Worth a read!

    Emmy

    x

    • 31st Aug 2015
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