For one week

  • Tammy Heath nee Wakefield

    Actor

    just an idea what do you think would happen if everyone on ccp didnt apply to non paying jobs posted on here for one solid week monday to monday...do you think it would change anything?..or if all the ccps sent a applicaion saying they can not work for no pay ...would this change anything there is alot of actors on this site and for one week maybe it could be done...i never apply for no pay ...but the ones that do, if you changed would it change the employers minds about trying to get actors to work for nothing.....shall we even try??????

    • 25th Feb 2009
    • 2303
    • 40
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    A really good idea. I don't apply for them but sometimes I'm curious to know what the companies are like so I look them up on the web.

    If you notice any companies advertising non paid work, let Tim Gale of Equity know.

    It would be great if we could all email them and say something along the lines of 'what a shame, such a good part and it sounds like a good script. However, I have to make a living and, like the rest of the populace, I can't afford to work for nothing.'

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 1
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    What a great idea. Why do they assume that actors will work for no pay? It is also in contravention of the National Minimum Wage regulations. Go for it!

    Graham

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 2
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    Well, in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm going to do more of it.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 3
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Here here, this is a professional site for professional Actors which charges a lot for membership. The fact that unpaid work is on here in the first place is a joke.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 4
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    Got this from someone who saw a posting on another site. His email to them, their reply and his response to that.

    Dear ---,

    I would not normally do this, but, as a social etiquete magazine, I wanted to ask why you thought it was okay to post an unpaid job on a professional acting site and why, even after deciding not to recompense your performers at proper industry levels, you would then choose to ignore the National Minimum Wage laws which would still apply to any work done recording your virals. The old adage 'you get what you pay for' is very apt in this situation and the offer of no money is one which I think you'll find many actors, especially those over 30, whom you are targetting, actually find quite offensive. If it wasn't for the lack of payment I would have loved to have applied myself but your post is one of many on this site which shows a lack of respect for, and is detrimental to, the acting world as a whole and both of these seem at odds with what you are trying to achieve, unless I've gravely misunderstood the point of your soon-to-be website.

    Yours

    REPLY

    Dear ---

    Thank you for your note and honesty. I, too, normally wouldn't reply to such a note, but think you deserve an appropriate explanation.

    I'm sorry if you found offense in my post - that was not at all my intention. This initial video project is a pilot one, and - I might add - completely independent and self-funded. The idea is to work on a short shoot (with expenses paid) with actors who may have the experience, but who are open to new projects and have the time. I might add that - depending on how the collaborations go - could lead to future work, which would be paid.

    So before jumping the gun (in spirit of good manners), perhaps it best to ask the person casting before sending such outrageously presumptuous correspondence.

    However, it is always good to get feedback and I'm glad you found the time to send your note in your busy schedule.

    Best of luck with your endeavours

    prompting a final resonse

    Dear---

    thank you too for your response. I personally wasn't offended as I am aware that many students etc do start out collaborating on projects. And yes I may have been slightly presumptive in thinking that a viral to advertise a magazine or website is actually there an aid to a professional organisation and not something on par with a student film. Maybe you should have clarified this position and maybe i shouldn't have assumed you were either working for or were yourself a professional organisation. For my error i apologise. I was not jumping the gun or being presumptive about the lack of payment in your production and I would still refer you to the National Minimum Wage which applies to all productions, whatever the level, as, even if after you find people, and I'm certain you will, willing to work for nothing you still leave yourself open to being taken to court for this basic amount regardless of any pre-arranged agreements for travel expenses and food. Perhaps in future you may wish to ensure that any project you organise at least obeys the law, it protects yourself and the payment, though not vast, would indicate that the actors are at least worth something to you and probably lead to better results overall.

    Needless to say, there's been no response to this one.

    Cheers

    T

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 5
  • Mark Kempner

    Actor

    IT WASN'T ME ON THOSE LETTERS!!!

    Ayse...this site may have set out to be like you describe....but it's not like that now? It's packed with people willing to work for nothing. Thats why it attracts so many no pay jobs!

    I think it should be renamed...Casting Call.....and drop off the word Pro!

    I will be thinking very seriously before paying up to be a full member next time around.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 6
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Well, respect to that person who wrote that. The essential point that the 'producer' (if we can grace them with that title) forgets, is that the project is for his benefit. It MAY lead to paid work for the performers, but they are still promoting his project, and he should pay them for doing so. People have no right to ask actors to work for free. Will he expect Prontaprint to photocopy the script for free, or Starbucks to offer him a free lunch? Of course not.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 7
  • Hugh Osborne

    Actor

    I've posted this point before somewhere, in either Mark or Sharon's thread,so apologies for repeating myself, but the way to really make the employers sit up and notice is to 'apply' to the job; that is to say, use the CCP system to reply to the employer, but telling them in your covering letter that you refuse to work for nothing: as these jobs tend to allow only a finite number of responses before locking out would-be applicants, for us collectively to respond in this way might be an effective way of a) making one's point and b) - sorry to be brutal here - preventing others who WOULD work for nothing from applying for the (non) job.

    What do you think?

    Hx

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 8
  • Toni Brooks

    Actor

    Well, I've sent a few emails off - we'll see what - if any - response I get :-))

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 9
  • Hugh Osborne

    Actor

    One other thing, in response to Mark's point: I've noticed in the last few weeks that some very well-respected and, indeed, well-known actors have joined this site (perhaps an indication of the lack of work out there).

    Presumably CCP would like to keep them as members; but these guys with 20-odd years of TV, radio and West End experience are, equally presumably, NOT here to read adverts for profit-share productions of Jurassic Park: the Musical at some 50-seat fringe venue in Chingford etc. etc. I wonder how CCP is going to square the various circles it is increasingly being confronted with.

    PS Hello to Graham, who is a genuine, real-deal Equity big fish, and can no doubt answer an AWFUL lot of our questions! (Sorry, Graham.)

    Hx

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 10
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    This is great.

    I'm up for whichever way is decided by the masses.

    I have already boycotted no/low pay jobs. It's an insult.

    I don't apply to student jobs anymore because I don't get anything out of it, material is NEVER good enough for a showreel. And I don't apply for jobs where the rate is laughable.

    Last year, when living in ent, I went up for a corporate job, audition in London, £20 travel. They only told me when I got there what the rate was.............£50 Disgusting. If I'dhave done the 'job' I would only have been £10 better off. And that's just the travel. I also would have had to pay for childcare, so I would have been out of pocket.

    The job had a £ sign, indicating payment. I think that if a job is advertised as paid it should be fair pay.

    This is going off the subject a bit and maybe a different discussion altogether.

    So, back to the question, I already don't apply for no pay jobs as I suspect many people on this site don't. Therefore, I think maybe we should go down the route of 'applying' with a formulated statement.

    Sarah

    x

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 11
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Meant to say KENT not ENT....Doh

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 12
  • Mark Kempner

    Actor

    Ok...how's this as a suggestion?

    We ask Equity to compose a simple concise response letter to the student films, and commercial job castings that are stating low or no pay whatsoever….both on this site and others.

    Along the lines of..."we would like to apply to be in your project, and to help you, but as your school is actively breaking the law over the National Minimum wage, I can't help you. Perhaps you should forward this to your College principle."

    We can all copy and paste this same letter to the colleges etc in the response emails from within this site.

    The point being ...because its always the same letter....word is going to get around the colleges that this is happening pretty quick!

    If CCP admin starts to prevent us doing that....why? ...and even if they do, we can still copy and past the casting notes, and email it direct to the college. I woudl hope that CCP wont, as we are paid up members!

    This needs to be taken to the Equity forum as a suggestion and for guidance, or direct to Tim Gale maybe?

    Thoughts?

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 13
  • User Deleted

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    Deffo Mark.

    Have you put this on Equity yet?

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 14
  • Mark Kempner

    Actor

    No...I have to rush off....and was gonna think it through.....but if you want to pop it on now...Im happy! Was just going to see if any other members had thoughts on my suggestion?

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 15
  • User Deleted

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    Yes here here indeed.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 16
  • Jenna Sharpe

    Actor

    I absolutely agree. It would be great if Equity could provide a template letter that we can all use to send to these cheap skate production companies! Perhaps it can include a link to a page on the Equity site that explains things in more detail.

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 17
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Great to see people thinking of practical action! Count me in.

    And I don't think we should restrict ourselves to one week.

    I wonder what the position is regarding advertising jobs that are, by definition, illegal?

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 18
  • User Deleted

    This profile has been archived

    Please feel free to discuss this on the Equity forum.

    I've put Marks suggesstion on.

    It's in ' Letter To The Stage' debate

    • 24th Feb 2009
    • 19