just an idea what do you think would happen if everyone on ccp didnt apply to non paying jobs posted on here for one solid week monday to monday...do you think it would change anything?..or if all the ccps sent a applicaion saying they can not work for no pay ...would this change anything there is alot of actors on this site and for one week maybe it could be done...i never apply for no pay ...but the ones that do, if you changed would it change the employers minds about trying to get actors to work for nothing.....shall we even try??????
Count me in on this-
Almost goes without saying!
We're a feisty bunch when we get going, eh?!
I really like the idea of a letter template for either the production companies or the media courses.
This issue is not going to go away! 433 members of the "Letter to the Stage" group on Facebook and counting...
perhaps we should also lobby casting call not to accept offers of "work" that dont pay. But then again thats not in their interest. perhaps we should all boycott the site for a week/month too.
I can't see that happening somehow, Glenn. lol
If we start seeing this thread censored, remeber the equity forum is uncensored.
Sorry to harp on about it, but I think we need to remember that ccp is a business, I'd be really surprised if 'da management' really care about the issues that we have discussing over the last couple of weeks. I think that if they did, they would be more stringent with some of the companies that they allow to post 'job' ads.
CCP are really good at being clear what's paid, lo paid and unpaid. We must remember that they get nothing out of people wanting freebies either.
I think what we can do is help raise awareness, not to preach whether someone should or shouldn't work for free but to focus on the differences between collaboration and exploitation so actors are more aware of when they are being used by producers and film schools who keep themselves employed and keep budgets for themselves at our expense.
And I think it might more use to Equity if they write to employers rather than us doing it. If Equity gather a body of evidence for what is going on and how widespread it is, it makes their case stronger to ensure minimum wage legislation is being acted upon.
I think a lot of actors are doing nothing because they are unaware of how Equity is dealing with this.
Thanks for Hugh for calling me an Equity big fish - hardly! But one thing about Equity and the minimum wage, which arose at the Midlands AGM. Although Equity can and does take legal action to recover money members are owed (even if you are not on an Equity contract) under the law, Equity cannot take legal action on anyone's behalf over the minimum wage, the employee has to do it personally. So if people do it willingly, I guess not much can be done to prevent them. But PROFESSIONAL means you are paid, otherwise, isn't it AMATEUR?
Some really good points there, Leilani.
We mustn't forget that there's a lot of good creative work done by people just getting up and making stuff with no budget but bags of collective goodwill. Although these type are not often posted on CCP as they tend to be people like us banding together and putting things on.
Saying that, I've advertised in the past for the odd actor for a no-budget production where I clearly state "expenses only".
I think in cases like this, Equity would be quite right in contacting me and quizzing me over this. I'm going to be co-producing something this spring and if the acting buddies I have in mind aren't available then I will be advertising it as the National Minimum Wage. I should practice what I preach, even though technically there isn't a budget (just an overdraft!)
x
Leila
As I've said, I once went for a job that had the big £ sign next to it. This to me means decent pay, it turned out to be £50. Doesn't even cover expenses.
I don't know if it's the employer or ccp that put the jobs into categories, but in this case, it certainly wasn't clear.
I was chatting to Tim at Equity after the AGM and he said he's not really concerned with people who band together to make creative projects happen. In fact he's all for actors being allowed to be proactive and promote their own careers.
He's more concerned with companies and film schools. Film schools charge huge fees to students (as much as £16000 a year in some cases!) and should therefore have ample budgets to provide an equity low pay contract to actors.
We're not all going to agree that it's amateur to work for nothing. I'm a professional and my work is professional whether I'm being paid or not. I don't really know any actors who fully earn their living from acting, most have a side job or business. I'd rather do a free short film here and there than paid pretend corporate roleplay is an acting job. That's my opinion and I'm sure many would disagree with me. I'm not out to change others opinions and I know people won't change mine.
But we can work together on the things we agree on. And thats the basic principle that if the employer gets paid then we get paid. That's fair and that's right and that's enforcable if we keep attempting to enforce it.
I'd like to see a template letter from Equity that we could all use if we so choose!
Equity is not big enough to start chasing every school, small company etc etc.
But if we have a simple letter that we can start to send out, we can help them...Then yes it will soon spread, and we might be able to change some attitudes!
No need to boycot this site! It would not achieve anything unless NOBODY reniewed their membership....!
my template letter suggestion related to student films and or commercial projects paying way below the proper rate.
action of this sort is about tackling one angle and tackling it carefuly. If you can change one thing for the better, then you can tackle something else.
imagine a scenario whereby the film schools start paying actors what is legally right. a) the students would get even more choice and more experienced actors to work with and b) the actors wont feel disgruntled. Finaly it would create a little extra money for actors taking part in student films....better than shelf filling etc?
Now to me....just changing that would create something positive and karma reigns!!
It will take some time...and there is much to change within the industry....but little accorns and all that.
I also agree with TIM GALES view that actors need to be pro-active. Those that want to be can be....subject to proper defered payment contracts being in place.
Pro v Amature debate.......my view is you are defined doing something professionally when being paid?
You might be acting very well and I think thats where that debate crosses over and offends some...who take it personally that they are in some way not being professional.
Anyway..I have no wish to offend...so I dodn't want to get into that debate in full...and I don't want to try and chamge any actors perception of how they define their position or title.
Lets tackle the film schools and the Cos taking advantage of us....and see if we can't at least improve that. If we all act accordingly...ie stick togther...it will change very quickly! Equity will fully suport sensible approach.
This is supposed be a professional site for goodness sake, we have to PAY to be on here!
CCP should stop posting non-paid work on this site.
If it is low paid, CCP should also include a paragraph somewhere stating; that they are breaking the Law and could be liable to prosecution, if a minimum wage is not offered.
Or at least offer a link to another site that is free of charge for actors to browse and apply for non-paid casting and charge those Companies for posting non paid work, at least that would be fair to all concerned.
I am absolutely delighted i put up the post thinking that i would get the old comments of yes good idea but no-one will stick to it.....you know i think there comes a point when we have all had enough and that time is coming people... lets really stick together on this one, start with film schools change them them move onto bigger co and we will all be happy, once some of the actors who are not sure start to see change then they will join too and watch out world ...........Equity behind this is fantastic and everyone who does find it an insult lets write a very nice polite letter telling them so xx
Just a quick note someone said that ccp are always very clear about pay no pay however today posted organs for orphins £ a big one click on it to find expenses only..................
I think Mark has a point about amatuer/pro but for now a lot of us have to take on the fringe theatre etc. to keep busy. (though choosing carefully these days!)Hopefully there will be a few more paid jobs available in the future and we won't see the need to work for nothing.
I wish I had your agent, Mark!
x
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