In films and real life,why is there a cross on a dead man's tomb?

Ah, yes, Stuart, but:

"Supposedly, since that time, any candidate for the pope undergoes an intimate examination to ensure he is not a woman (or eunuch) in disguise. This involved sitting on a chair which has a hole in the seat. The most junior deacon present then feels under the chair to ensure the new Pope is male.
"And in order to demonstrate his worthiness, his testicles are felt by the junior present as testimony of his male sex. When this is found to be so, the person who feels them shouts out in a loud voice testiculos habet ("He has testicles") And all the clerics reply Deo Gratias ("Thanks be to God"). Then they proceed joyfully to the consecration of the pope-elect" - Felix Hamerlin, De nobilitate et Rusticate Dialogus (ca. 1490), quoted in The Female Pope, by Rosemary & Darroll Pardoe (1988).
As with myths generally, a small amount of truth exists, embellished with lairs of fiction. Such a seat did exist; when a pope took possession of his cathedral, St. John Lateran in Rome, he traditionally sat on two ancient chairs of porphyry, the sedia stercoraria. Both had holes. The reason for the holes remains a mystery, but as both the seats and their holes predated the Pope Joan story, and indeed Catholicism by centuries, they clearly have nothing to do with a need to check the sex of a pope. It has been speculated that they originally were Roman bidets or imperial birthing stools, which because of their age and imperial links were used in ceremonial by popes intent on highlighting their own imperial claims (as they did also with their latin title, Pontifex Maximus).
The myth of Pope Joan was conclusively rubbished by David Blondel, a mid-seventeenth century protestant historian, who, through detailed analysis of the claims and suggested timings, showed that no such events could have happened. Among the evidence discrediting the Pope Joan story, is
· in the 'year of Pope Joan', 854, the actual pope was Leo IV.
· Papal possessions did not travel down the processional route where the supposed birth took place at Easter.
· No archival documentation exists of such an event.
· The 'testicle seat' which popes supposedly sat on to have their masculinity ascertained long predates the era of 'Pope Joan' and has nothing to do with a requirement that a pope have his tecticles checked."

It's so unfair how facts get in the way of perfectly good stories.

• 17 years ago
• 21

"reference to someone's beauty...who cares?"

I think we were just trying to lighten it all as it was getting a bit moody and people were getting annoyed with you. S'all!

Personally I welcome all kinds of debate but have to agree that some things are better left off a 'casting' forum. Not all, but some, and the despite the fact that you hadn't intended it to be a religious debate it was inevitable wasn't it? And I'm bored to death with that one!
Lx

• 17 years ago
• 22

Thanks Mike for the update on the female Pope story.

That's a shame it's not true - I think it would make a great musical:

Pope!

Joan is an ordinary good little Catholic girl. She works hard, plays hard, and prays hard. But Joan is a Catholic girl with a difference: she's the Pope!

Pope! A new musical. Book and Lyrics Stuart Draper, Music by Bon Jovi.

Starring Rebecca Probyn as Pope Joan I, Richard Griffiths as Cardinal Frilly, Miriam Margoyles as Mother Inferior, John Sessions as Random Camp Person and introducing Stuart Draper as Crab The Dog.

The Hit Single 'God Give Me Wings, I Need the Confidence' now available on Chrysalised Records.

• 17 years ago
• 23

wow...all i can say is WOW! i take everything back. my life is enriched from finally discovering the answer to the question of crucifixes on graves. i kid you not, i've had sleepless nights since that particular conundrum was raised, and i'll tell you what...I AM NOW THE ULTIMATE ACTOR!!!!! my quest to reach this accolade has ended. i'm rushing into town to buy my lycra suit as soon as i finish writing this. do you think pants over or under the suit?

as for my gorgeous charlotte church lookalike and the obvious physical charms of nick, i feel this is highly relevant as everyone loves to receive compliments, and to put a smile on someone's face is the best gift a guy can give. (BBLLEEUURRGGHH!!! pass the bucket)

bye kids,

xxx

• 17 years ago
• 24

Pants under or over the suit?

How about over your head?

I think you should wear that at the BAFTAs when you receive Best Newcomer for your role as Little Timmy Goodhead, the choir boy, in Pope! The Musical. It would be a finger flick to all those who doubted you.

Please be sure to thank me in your acceptance speech for not only creating the role for you, but also for guiding you on your Journey as an Actor.

I've also been doing research on why it is that if you drop a slice of bread it lands butter side up.

I've now dropped 879 slices of white bread and 437 slices of brown bread.

The white bread is statistically more likely to land butter side down. This is most likely due to the fact that white bread has a more malleable structure than brown bread, and therefore more likely to 'twist' in the air.

The height from which the bread is dropped may also be a factor. I dropped an entire loaf from the Blackpool Tower. Unfortunately the seagulls got to it before I could analyse the results, and the Blackpool Constabulary locked me in the cells for eight hours, so the experiment was a disaster. I had to share with Little Jimmy Cranky who had been mistakenly arrested under suspicion of being a rent boy. Turns out he was merely handing out flyers for his hit show 'Bovver Boots, the Musical,' which was playing at the end of the pier.

A waste of time, I hear you say? What is this man talking about, I hear you say?

I was recently in an obscure French Farce by Foydeau, and it required me to drop a slice of bread and it HAD to land butter side down, or the whole of the second act didn't work.

On the nights where it landed unbuttered side down, we had to cancel the second act as it wouldn't have made any sense whatsoever to the audience (and the whole business with the vicar and the teacakes would have been a nonsense).

Research is important as an actor. Even if the research is flawed and inconclusive.

Here's another useful pointer: if you need a back history for a character, walk into Waterstones, randomly grab an autobiography from the shelf marked 'Autobiography' and base your character's back history on the events and stories in the book.

It was an interesting and valuable experience basing my character of Siegfried Sassoon on the life of Kate Adie. Although the bra used to itch to buggery.

• 17 years ago
• 25

Stuart, thank you for brightening my exceptionally dull afternoon. My reputation of weirdo temp in my work place has now been firmly established by my impromptu and ill-placed cackle of laughter.

• 17 years ago
• 26

Whoops, the research was of course based on why it lands butter side DOWN.

That was a typo. I wouldn't conduct research to test a hypothesis of why something happens in a certain way if it never happens in a certain way. That would be like funding a research project on 'Why Poodles Are More Likely To Be Elected to the House of Lords than Chihuahuas.'


RANDOM PHOTO OF CHIHUAHUA

• 17 years ago
• 27

Stuart

Please can I be in your musical too? How about as the Poisoned Dwarf?

Anything to be a part of something that has music by Jon Bon Jovi (Big Sigh) - My Hero! Gazes off into the distance...

• 17 years ago
• 28

Sorry, but that would be politically incorrect.

You could play the part of the fool: Kermit the Hermit. He is the one who points out the error of the Church, and highlights their reluctance to accept the fact that the Pope is a woman, despite the fact that she is in nine inch heels and a basque.

He acts as a foil to the more flamboyant and sexually repressed Cardinal Frilly (as I mentioned, Richard Griffiths has been pencilled). Their show-stopping number, 'The Emperor's New Clothes are Panties and a Bra,' in which Kermit the Hermit and Cardinal Frilly tap dance with a backing chorus of 347 choir boys will bring the house down every night.

Shall I get the producers to call your agent?

• 17 years ago
• 29

nine inch heels and a basque?!! you know me so well Stuart ;)

I'll get andrew working on the posters right away !!

xx

• 17 years ago
• 30

Pope!

Act One Scene One

The Church Elders are lined up, in contemplation and prayer. A young Cardinal enters, in an obvious state of panic.

Cardinal: I am in distress. Distress!

Bishop 1: That's not a dress, it's a cassock.

Cardinal: No. Distress. Psychological suffering; a state of adversity; extreme physical and mental pain.

Bishop 2: Why man, what's the matter?

The Cardinal whispers in the ear of the nearest Bishop, and the message is conveyed Chinese Whisper-style along the line, with the bishop's reacting in horror. The message finally reaches the end of the line.

Bishop 8: The Pope's got NITS???

Cardinal: Not nits, *****

A bell rings and drowns his words.

Bishop 6: Zits?

Cardinal: No! *****

Again the Bell rings.

Bishop: Zips? They haven't been invented...

Cardinal: No. Look.

He begins to mime 'breasts.'

Bishop 5: One word -

Bishop 4: Is it a book or a film?

Bishop 3: Sounds like tits.

The Cardinal puts his finger on his nose.

Bishop 3: Sounds like nose? Hose? Rose. Goes. Flows.

Bishop 2: Is it an exact rhyme? Or is it blank verse?

Cardinal passes out.

Bishop 1: TOES! The Pope has TOES! Call a meeting of the Synod! If this gets out it'll be even worse than everyone finding out that Mary Magdalene married Jesus. Merde! Did I say that out loud. I'm such a ****

The bell rings again and obscures his words. Black out.

Caption: Rome. 15 years earlier. Wednesday. Just before the shops close for early closing. About 2 O'clock. Or thereabouts.....

• 17 years ago
• 31

Act One, Scene Two

15 Years Earlier.

A young cardinal, Cardinal Synne, enters in a state of excitement.

Cardinal Synne: Cardinal Richloo, Cardinal Richloo!

Cardinal Richloo appears from the cloisters, followed by a choir boy.

Cardinal Richloo: What's all this shouting? This is a Holy Place. You'll disturb the pigeons!

Cardinal Synne: Sorry. Am I interrupting?

Cardinal Richloo: I was just teaching this choir boy how to reach a top 'F'. Now if I can only get him to do it standing up -

Cardinal Synne: The new Novice is here. From Wales. He asked to see you. Nice centre parting.

Choirboy: Thank you.

Cardinal Richloo: Well, send him in. Send him in!

Cardinal Synne: (Shouting) Brother Hughes! Brother Huges

There is the sound of enormous flapping and cooing of pigeons. The priests are pelted with pigeon droppings.

Cardinal Synne: Sorry.

A young novice enters. He looks perfectly normal in his brown robes and shaved head, apart from the fact that he has a Double E cup and is carrying a handbag.

Cardinal Richloo: Ah, Brother Hughes, I have heard so much about you.

Choirboy: Will that be all, Father?

Cardinal Richloo: Shh. How many times have I told you that some secrets... Ah. I see. Yes. Ahem. Ha ha ha. As in Holy Father. Not as in -

Cardinal Synne: You're still talking.

Cardinal Richloo: Yes. Yes I am. I am still talking. Excuse me.

He races out. The men stand embarrassed. We hear the sound of someone whipping themselves with birch twigs.

Cardinal Richloo: (Off) Ouch. Ow. OW. Ooh! Oh. YES. YES. I mean NO, NO. Ouch. OWWW!

He comes back on, with bits of twigs stuck to his cassock.

Cardinal Richloo: Sorry about that. Where were we....

• 17 years ago
• 32

LOL - how funny has this tangent become...!

Can I be the pretty one that leads the Pope astray...mind you I'd need to research that quite a lot.

I'll head off down Leith Docks with a bag of change and will let you know how it pans out....

• 17 years ago
• 33

To go back to the beginning. When you say 'ancient' times how far back exactly? Equilateral crosses have been found in ancient, pre-historic sites. They're thought to symbolise the perfect balance between the gods and man (to include goddessess and women of course). Also, some were found to be within a circle, symbolising equanimity and symmetry between the two as well. Thus, some think, the basis for 'squaring the circle' found in esoteric thinking and architecture (loads in Wren's stuff).
The cruciform cross of course is the symbol for christ and needs no explanation.
Cheers

• 17 years ago
• 34

Oh yes, Kermit the Hermit looks ideal - do please contact my agent. I am available (flicks through diary).....any time!

• 17 years ago
• 35

haha!! that is it Stuart you have now entered genius status in my eyes!!

nice centre parting hhehehehe

• 17 years ago
• 36

Thank you, Antoinette.

But what has all that got to do with musical theatre?

I am finding this thread confusing.

• 17 years ago
• 37

Just went back to the original posting.

• 17 years ago
• 38

This has nothing to do with anything really, I just wanted to thank everyone for contributing to what has been the most entertaining, intriguing and random thread posted since I've been a member of this site! Well done all of you!

PS Yes you're all pretty!

• 17 years ago
• 39

This tread has turned into one of the best ever!!
well done kev for giving birth to this baby! I've no idea how it developed like it did but I suppose thats what happens when you let creative/pretty/french people go off on one.

I didn't read all the info on the female pope (hung over and without my glasses) so don't know if it was said, but i thought she was only found out when she gave birth in the street!

you must be able to get a good song out of that one!

• 17 years ago
• 40