Students - what are they on?

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A friend of mine went up for a student film. She was sent a copy of the script for a 7min film.

During the casting she was given a page of dialougue written especially for the casting concerning her part and a new charater - ie. a new scene all unseen.

She perfomed it and was then asked what she thought the relationship was to the newcharacter - the new character wasnt in the script she had been sent and this was a sight reading of 1 page only! She said he'd need to see more of the script to understand their relationship.

She was also asked what her views of the films central theme were - terrorism. Given she wasnt being paid, her approach to this project was to turn up, do a bit of work and go home. She wasnt going to spend weeks mulling over the broader meanings and doing insightful character study. It was an unpaid 7 min film.

Needless to say she was taken aback and left thinking "do I really need to jump though all these hoops for some students who arent paying me?"

She asked them how much experience they had - they said "loads" - turns out they were second year students. She'd been in the business (trained) for 25 years.

What do you think about it? My friend was taken aback by how intense they were.

Why do students assume its something bigger than a simple unpaid gig - you aint gonna get much preparation or dedication from your actor when thats all you're offering.


  • 17 years ago
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I hope you don't feel I'm being rude- however, shouldn't your uni be helping you to source local actors?
We've already mentioned the equity branches nearby. The northern actors centre is another option.
You could put "locals only need apply". You don't have to invite London actors to audition.

Actors are such a fundamental part of filmmaking, perhaps more needs to be done to help students understand the casting process and working with actors?
(I appreciate this is already happening in some schools, but this gentleman is demonstrating that many seem to be leaving them to it, with irritating results for all concerned).

Perhaps it's your uni you should be angry with, not us.


  • 17 years ago
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Toni Brooks
Actor

To number person. It's the tone of your emails and the insult you made to Forbes which were totally uncalled for - look back at your posts, your original tone wasn't in response to a like tone from anyone else.
You say you pay to come down to London for auditions. Presumably, you also have to pay for a room at least to hold the auditions in. Wouldn't it make more sense to use actors from your area then you could use a room at uni for no expense at all?
Where in London do you hold auditions?
I'm glad you supply accommodation and three meals a day but again, if you use people from your area, you wouldn't have to supply accommodation thereby freeing up cash to pay your actors. You can always put 'only actors local to the area should apply'. That would save a lot of London based people applying.
Just a thought.


  • 17 years ago
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'That would save a lot of London based actors applying'?!
Sorry but surely all us London based actors are perfectly capable of deciding which castings we put ourselves forward for. Paid or otherwise.

I actually do agree with '951594' because every aspiring film maker has to start somewhere. It is a shame they can't afford to pay us but if they spent all their money on paying us, would they be able to afford 'locations, equipment, & cars.' Excuse me if I'm wrong but I think these are rather important. I'm sure most self obsessed actors, especially some on this site would want a film made of just them in a room 'acting', but unless people are prepared to create work themselves, I don't think it's fair or necessary, to make a sweeping generalisation about people who are training and don't necessarily know how to behave.

Personally I can't afford to do student films, so quite simply I don't apply for them, neither do I sit at my computer and whinge about students who are trying to make a film, and their lack of respect for actors. What they do is their decision and hopefully the mistakes they make they will learn from.


  • 17 years ago
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Forbes KB
Actor

Chiron,
I'm not expecting payment from Student filmakers, but I'm also not expecting have to pay for the privilege of appearing in their films. There is a huge difference between receieving payment and having mandatory expenses covered.

If a student filmmaker hasn't budgeted to pay travel expenses to bring Southern based actors up north or vice versa, then they should simply put "actors local to xxx only need apply as we don't have the money to pay travel expenses" in their casting call. That simple statement would have saved a huge amount of wasted time from all concerened.

ForbesKB


  • 17 years ago
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Hi,
Perhaps we should all start assuming that student films are all unpaid and dont cover travel expenses then if they are covered it will be a pleasant surprise.
I do think that if you see a posting for a role that is north of London, perhaps asking the students concerned whether expenses are covered wouldn't hurt (if it's not advertised in the posting) and certainly doesn't take long before agreeing to audition/read the script.


  • 17 years ago
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im sorry but can people read the original post again. this was not about if actors should pay to be in student films it was actually about what the actor was asked when she got to the auditon. the filmaker is making a film be it student or otherwise and he has asked an actor their opinion. what do people think of this


  • 17 years ago
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Forbes KB
Actor

The simple fact, Chiron, that it should be the other way round. Travel expenses and a DVD copy of the film are the accepted norm and the lone student group who is fuelling this debate is, thankfully, the exception.

The vast majority of student filmmakers I have worked with (note "with", not "for") over the past 3 years have understood that covering travel expenses is the least they can do. On one film we camped or slept in our cars in the Scottish Highlands. One group (Coventry University under the name "Uncanny Productions")even flew myself and 7 other actors out to Prague to film their final year projects and spent the whole year fundaraising and getting business sponsorship to be able to afford it. We slept in workers hostels and got the public bus to the locations so it certainly wasn't all glitz and glamour but those guys now have a much better understanding of the cost of filmmaking and prioritising a limited budget correctly than "number guy" seems to have.

The Coventry guys apparently do this every year so I would highly recommend them to anyone who wants a working trip to Prague.

ForbesKB


  • 17 years ago
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I agree with Sally all this says to me is that student film makers have little understanding as to what the actor's role is, in the filmmaking process. No actors, no film. treat them well get a good performance and a good film, treat them poorly get a bad performance and a crap film... easy. In regards to Mr numbers surely a good director actually likes working with actors? Surely a smart director wouldn't put down any professional with such a heavy CV? Surely a brave director puts his name on his output to the world?


  • 17 years ago
  • 48
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Yes many student film makers may have little understanding as to what the actors role is, which is why they're at university to learn. I'm not really clear as to why people are finding it so hard to understand this. Those of us that have had accredited training have made many mistakes too I'm sure. Just because students aren't able/prepared - (whatever you want to call it) to pay our expenses, doesn't mean we are being treated poorly, it just mean there is no money involved. It is then our decision whether to pursue that role or not.

Forbes, I agree it should be the other way round, unfortunately at the moment it isn't. Which is frustrating. I had one bad experience with a student who offered me a role in his film, I wont go into details but afterwards I couldn't get hold of him for love nor money. Yes at the time it was incredibly annoying but there was nothing I could do about it except run up my phone bill. Instead of crying over spilt milk I just channelled my energies into finding paid work/a better agent etc.

I'm really happy for you that you got flown to Prague and you'd recommend the students you worked with, that really is great. But just as there are good and bad students to work with, I'm sure plenty of the professional students could tell many a tale about the self obsessed, demanding, arrogant actors they have worked with.

In response to the original post, I hope I don't cause offence but I'm not totally sure I understand how come someone that has been in the industry for 25 years would have a problem giving the students feedback on their script and/or would need to go up for a student film in the first place. And students will obviously think it's something bigger than 'a simple unpaid gig' because the film making industry in a few months/years will be their career and they're most likely being assessed on everything they do.


  • 17 years ago
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Nathan Head
Actor

its great when students put passion in their work. i really love it

sometimes i can get the impression they are just making the movie to impress their tutors and they dont wanna spend their booze money on actors.
its cool that not all students are like this tho. as i said many times, ive worked with some great guys and i really enjoyed the experience


  • 17 years ago
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kiss ass, he won't give you a job just from that you know.
No but seriously some of the stuff said in this thread was just uncalled for, it's a partnership, the actor and the director, noones more important than the other and without eachother they are worthless.


  • 17 years ago
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User Deleted
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ha ha brilliant, being called a kiss ass because I disagree with the majority. That's actually very funny.


  • 17 years ago
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:) you know I'm just messing around Chiron


  • 17 years ago
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""Its a partnership""

From the guy that just said...No Actors, No film!

Snore


  • 17 years ago
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Lucia Barber
Actor

What started out as an interesting if slightly heated discussion is now turning a touch unpleasant - we seem to be simply fueling the arrogance of the anonymous one and perhaps even stooping to their rather purile level. Might I suggest we 'rise above it' and stop trying to prove our point to one who is unwilling to listen to it. After all the only people worth debating with are those who are actully inteligent enough to listen.


  • 17 years ago
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Forbes KB
Actor

Agreed...over and out!!


  • 17 years ago
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95whatev, Don't be stupid I'm giving you an out. yes no actors no film just, like no director no film. I like directors and most of the time, my work is incomplete without there imput. But just like there are good and bad actros there are good and bad directors... you dig?


  • 17 years ago
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woops didn't see lucia's post. very true


  • 17 years ago
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I think it's their lack of experience really.As someone else said....10 years down the line they'll look back at themselves and laugh, or even cringe! I think professionalism and a pinch of salt is needed when auditioning for student films.


  • 17 years ago
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Hi to everyone involved in this interesting debate. Just thought I'd pitch in my 2 cents. For the benefit of Irfuller2, I'm the director of the piece "number" is producing. (My name's Alex by the way)

Firstly inregards to paying expenses it's your choice if you want to do it. If you dont like a script, character or any other aspect of a production you dont do it. It's that simple.

In regards to mentioning this outright, the initial advert is to find people initially interested. After which if they dont like any aspect of the production they can either opt out or discuss revising the terms.

Again in reagrds to not paying expense's I do realise that you do this to make a living. However student projects like this are ideal for actors starting out in the industry. I imagine most of you have paid money for stills, so that you can circulate a good quality image of yourself through the industry. What is so bad about asking people to pay expenses so that they can have a good quality piece on their show reel. If someone asked you to pay £40 (for travel), and in return they would spend £1000 on locations, props etc to make YOU look good, would you be so offended?

My final comment, and to be honest the only reason I bothered to contribute to this debate is as follows.

"A few less snakebites of an evening and they would have at least the travel budget!!"

I would love to be able to jet actors (and myself for that matter) off to Prague for a shoot. Unfortunately that is not possible. The impression I get from this forum is that all the students you have worked with come from landed families. Someone even mentioned getting businesses to sponsor their production. I may be wrong in this but it sounds more like they asked daddys friends for some money.

Despite the reversal of the poor student image, some of us are still poor. Our student loans only cover our accomodation. The tuition fee's etc are paid for by part time work. The budget we have managed is through begging, borrowing and doing any part time job we can get our hands on. We would love to be able to pay expenses without even considering it but in our particular situation it's not realistic.

And before someone drops in the "its only a fiver comment," it's not only a fiver. If you dont want to pay your expenses that's fine but please could you just say no. It's hard enough for people to break into this industry without connections.

Actors that are kind enough to donate their time and pay for their own expenses do get something back in return, and if they're doing it with a good production team the results can be very rewarding. What it also means is that production teams that dont have the same financial resources as others have an equal chance of succeeding in university and in the industry.


  • 17 years ago
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