To be in Equity or not to be?

Private User
Actor

I just wanted to make one thing clear about our beloved Equity.

I have been in and out of acting for over a decade and from my experience Equity is only good if you don't have an agent, or if you had an agent and left them and still get residuals or payments for past jobs, Equity receive those payments and hold onto them until you join - I believe this to be wrong.

In the past you had to be a member of Equity to get professional work, that no longer applies, they offer very little with regard to protecting actors rights and have no benefit in joining other than the above mentioned.

So be careful not to feed the protectionist part of the Industry that only works for those that already work!


  • 13 years ago
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Toni Brooks
Actor

To reiterate, Equity, like a lot of other unions, was much stronger and had a lot more authority pre-Thatcher who not only snatched away the milk from kids, but also butchered the unions.
As my mate said:
Equity's done the work and research already. Guidelines are available to members of Equity - after all, why should all of Equity's hard work, paid for by the members, be freely available to non-members?
Again, it's just not true that Equity will not release money owing to people unless they join. I've already put up a reply from Equity to this effect. If you phone up Equity offices, they will speak to you and advise you on what you need to know re monies owed.
Simples


  • 13 years ago
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Nigel Peever
Actor

"We" referred to us here on CCP, the people involved in this conversation. Professional actors struggling to make a living and not people like the builder guy that came round to give me a quote for some re-pointing the other week and told me how much background artiste work he does for a lark.

OK the "cobblers" was just a play on words it's an expletive and a profession so I tagged it on as a joke that has backfired.

So just to be clear you were involved in the "we" not the "buthchers, bakers etc".

If you want to get upset about anything get upset about the fact that I had a little giggle about your tenacity. Then you can send me personal insults titled "Stick to panto" with the quote "I dont do Panto, your from a different side of the business that I have no time for. "

Yes I'm Cross.


  • 13 years ago
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Private User
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Your comments were insulting(you know what you wrote) so get off your high horse and think about all artist not just the ones who have mates in rep that keep giving 2 bit actors jobs - ohh that wasn't a jibe at you by the way -lol.


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Nigel Peever
Actor

I'm sorry that my explanation wasn't sufficient to get through to you.


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Private User
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Lol - is there bno end tou your rudeness?


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Private User
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Toni, did you not understand that I stated 'when I asked for my money, they told me you have to be a member' - thats what they told me - now your turning around and saying that aint true and saying its 'cobblers', Thats what happened, whether you say it isnt the case or not - is that quite clear to you now? Jesus, how many reps does equity have on here, monotoring us now with stools - lol.

If you love Equity so much then tell them to get it right for once and start representing the artists interest first and foremost - simple!


  • 13 years ago
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Toni Brooks
Actor

All I can say is that I put your posting to the Equity forum and I posted the answers I got from them on here. I am an Equity member but I'm not a rep. You are becoming very rude - I wasn't rude. You took the term cobblers as a personal insult which it wasn't - it was a lighthearted way of saying that you were wrong. Maybe the reply you initially got from Equity was wrong - why not contact them again for full clarity?


  • 13 years ago
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Hey, I wear my heart on my sleave I dont care much for subtle inuendos as to my character or words - now imagine if, from your experience you decided to give us some insight into a particular subject, and out of good will posted it on here to help other actors, then I posted on your rant 'This is cobblers', dont you think thats rude? If you don't then fine Im sure others who are viewing this would beg to differ as I do.


  • 13 years ago
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Lee Ravitz
Actor

As usual, I have no wish to get involved in the set of accusations and counter-accusations that have started to dominate on this thread - it seems fairly apparent that the whole thing started out as a misguided attempt at humourously alluding to the situation that backfired.

That's by the by. To return to the original point of Aceman's thread: I don't think there is any need to question what you have experienced - I would, as a matter of course, assume that you have only posted to the forums about a situation *because* you've directly experienced it - and recently. If Equity told you that you had to be a member in order to reclaim your monies, then I'm willing to accept that's how the conversation went.

Quoting a reply like the one that said this story is 'cobblers' was unhelpful - but it's worth noting that Toni only posted this on someone else's behalf - John Webb's, who is a well known fixture on the Equity boards, but not, as far as I am aware, a member of this 'other site' (hence, Toni passing on the message). I don't know John personally, but from the many replies of his I have read, I know that he is considered to know Equity legal details chapter and verse, and that he *is* a man who holds very strong opinions. Does his reply stand as 'definitive' and mean that you can't possibly have had the conversation you lay claim to having? Of course not. John is referring to a formal, defined situation whereas you've experienced what sounds like a genuine miscommunication over the phone, and I can appreciate why the implication that you're talking nonsense has poisoned the situation. Moreover, I am not sure that John's reply actually bears any relation to the problem you have ACTUALLY encountered - so it may be another miscommunication.

At this point, though,I must admit, after having trawled the thread, to *myself* being a little confused as to what is at stake here, Aceman - am I taking the correct reading here?: from what you say, you are no longer a current Equity member. You contacted Equity in order to chase some residuals owing. Equity discovered you were not a paid member. They suggested that, as the residuals owing were, in fact, for a lesser amount than you would have paid in yearly subscription for membership, it was not in their interest to pursue winning back the pay for you? I can understand why that is frustrating, and operates regardless of the fact that you have been a long time Equity member of years' standing (and may well have contracted the initial job while you were an Equity member?). However, this would appear to have nothing to do with whether or not Equity *itself* retains residuals from the work of others if they are not paid members - which seemed to be what the post (or, least John Webb's response) was implying in the first instance - and would, let's face it, be an atrocious practice. So, I confess to confusion. Maybe the initial phone response was confused as well, and it would certainly pay to clarify all this.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with you that Equity urgently needs to learn how to 'modernise' more thoroughly, and, as best it can, should be aiming to win back more authority in, say, the next decade, rather than continuing to exist in a post Thatcher limbo that has reduced it to the level of a glorified insurance claims office. It has been pointed out by wiser heads than me that the Musicians Union, BECTU etc. etc. all suffered similarly from serious emasculation in the late 80's/early 90's, but have found ways to win back meaningful ground over the last 20 years - whilst Equity seems, in effect, to have never got beyond the loss of the closed shop, and has come to seem less and less relevant as years have passed by.

Amongst other things, it urgently requires fresh blood from amongst the 'grassroots' who are going to recognise, campaign for, and strengthen collective, industry wide, response to the problems that truly beset the vast majority of actors working in the 'ordinary' sectors of the profession today. The principal problem Equity has in policing the areas that are of concern to the majority of 'jobbing actors' (aside from chronic underfunding) is that these interests are never well represented by Equity surrogates who tend to be of a different generation (and to whom the vicissitudes of working with student filmmakers, Internet viral promoters, profit share fringe companies, commercials companies that demand buyout as opposed to residuals and so on mean very little), and who are often conspicuously successful and well-positioned within their chosen industry (this again tends to ensure that they may never, since leaving drama school, have even had to *contemplate* the possibility of working on a low budget film in order to attain showreel material, to appear in a fringe show in order to obtain an agent etc.). Yet, working on such material is the daily experience of literally thousands of actors in the early 21st century - and Equity's previous attempts to 'hold the line' by advising all members to refuse to work on such projects in order to avoid generating 'legitimacy' for them obviously failed decades ago. There has to be a new dispensation; indeed, it's overdue in coming. But it will take serious new initiatives from within the union to make it happen. And, as we are forever reminded its 'our' union, I suspect those initiatives will have to come from us.


  • 13 years ago
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Thank you Lee for bringing back some level headedness to this thread. At the end of the day any organisation is only as strong or effective as it's members. If an actor is unhappy with Equity then that is even more reason to become a member because you won't change it from the outside.


  • 13 years ago
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Private User
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Hi Lee,

Thank you for your post, an 'actor' that I can chat too!

I think your summery is absolutely right and I agree with many of your stated points.

The main thread wasn't about the residual situation, I know it may have been a one off incident that only I was privy too, the main argument was whether to join or not to, and quite frankly with Spotlight Photo's to pay, Spotlight, Video Show reels, working for no pay,(CCP) that many actors young and old have to do, is there a benefit to joining equity for these people? I don't think there is until you are working regularly. I cant push these actors into joining to strengthen the union when there is little service on the table for them. I think its as simple as that, and I haven't rejoined Equity because when I was working previously, before I took a seven year break from acting, my agent took care of me and I was a member of Equity because I thought a professional actor had to join.

I think if Equity wants to strengthen again they have to maintain their current service and look at doing more at the grass roots to improve their viability and image.


  • 13 years ago
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Robin Miller
Actor

I'm sorry, but I am heartily sick of actors who are not members of Equity benefiting from the fantastic work Equity does. Equity negotiates contracts, terms and conditions which then benefit ALL professional actors, not just those who have the decency to join their union. Actors who are Equity members in effect subsidise these 'freeloaders' - I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but it is the truth.

Equity is the only organisation that fights for actors' interests. Without Equity, most if not all acting work would be unpaid, or extremely badly paid.

Actors need Equity, and it's only fair to point out that Equity also needs us, so all actors should join! Rant over.


  • 13 years ago
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User Deleted
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Also another long time reader, but first time poster, I thought I'd chip in given I'm a (relatively new) Equity Councillor. I second all that Lucy and Lee (and others like them) have said...

To quote Lee
"Amongst other things, it urgently requires fresh blood from amongst the 'grassroots' who are going to recognise, campaign for, and strengthen collective, industry wide, response to the problems that truly beset the vast majority of actors working in the 'ordinary' sectors of the profession today."

That would be why I stood for Council... (And no, I'm not a Young Member; sadly I'm too old (!)) Previous Councils have been made up of what I would fondly call 'old-timers' (no offence intended) who are out of touch with the struggles that most of us have to contend with (even if they did once experience low pay/no pay back when they first started out - sadly this is really not a new issue, just a far more widespread and dangerous one). As with all things, change/progress never happens at the speed that those who hunger for it wish for...

BUT, things are happening. There is a pretty decent spread of ages and backgrounds on Council now and this is opening up the way for more issues to be re-addressed/re-examined.

There is to be a working party on low pay/no pay finally, which, whilst it is only a tiny move forward in what is a gigantic battlefield, means that there will be the chance for members to be heard on this issue (which I think is probably more pressing to many than even the cuts to the Arts). I will be utilising not only all my own (ugly) experiences, as this is the field I primarily work in, but also my membership of CCP etc to canvas opinions/thoughts/ideas to feed into the WP as that's why I'm a Councillor: to be a mouthpiece between members and the Union! Watch this space for further info as and when I have it!

Gosh, I hadn't intended this to be such an essay... I will finish by drawing your attention to the next branch meeting of the N&E London branch. On Saturday 12th March (11am, Khan lecture theatre, Sadler's Wells) our topic is 'Fringe Theatre'. We've got a great range of speakers and we want as many members there as possible (you can come as an observer if you're from a different branch). Topics to be discussed include GUIDELINES, the piece of paper called the Fringe Agreement (that I've never seen used), venue business models, and, naturally, PAY!!

Come join us, you know you want to!


  • 13 years ago
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Alan Brent
Actor

Just to add to the information...having served the union for over 20 years as an officer of the local Committee and for seven years as Chair of the branch I felt then that I was actually achieving something. Improving the 'lot' of actors in my area in specific terms.
However it is not as simplistic as you are all making it out to be. My experience in office has shown me that individuals working together then have to overcome the group mentality of Council who seem to be more concerned with their own collective agendas than trying to convey the massive changes needed in our profession. They chase the easy targets so that they can get elected again rather than addressing less headline grabbing situations we all have to suffer.
Clive has for years been involved with fighting against up front fees, for example. Yet Equity with all its 'power' over Government, have achieved NOTHING specific. They let him do all the work and IF there is any slight progression the Union wants to take all the credit!
What have they done to improve the low/no pay situation? Zilch!
Their no win no fee solicitors will fight any case where there is an easy walk over victory.
The reason to join? To pay over a hundred pounds a year out of your income (tax deductable) and you know you have insurance against personal liability, back stage cover and the knowledge that if you have a problem they can sometimes advise you. I would mention that the advice you get may not be perfect. But then again the legal losses never make their headlines since it is the member who loses not the Union.


  • 13 years ago
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Private User
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Well, I know most of you councilors and reps from Equity on this site would defend the Union, I understand that and i'm sure your intentions are good - but, your responses to my genuine, honest and experienced post was very, very protectionist, that worries me personally. Rather than discuss my points you decided to question my character and my choice and dismiss my arguments, this is not a sign of a strong union and I would suggest that before the Titanic sinks, which by the sounds of the incompetance there, I fear the iceburg is nearing, I suggest you find better leadership.

Using words like 'freeloaders'? Gosh doesn't that sound of elitis? Is this the arts we work in? Its those 'freeloaders' that you need to appeal to more and offer more services so they begin to feel a part of the union earlier, and when they start working and making enough money after being sapped left right and centre to forfil their dreams and ambitions for years, then they will gladly sign up and remain an active member.

Anyhow, I have chosen to not join this union at this time, Im not freeloading as I haven't had a need for them and when I did they never gave me good advice or helped in anyway. Kate Bancroft has been the only sign of change and she's new, so, one lives in hope.

The day we actors stay silent because of the arrogance of certain people in the industry putting their weight on a single little old actor and his grievances is a sad day for the arts in the UK. I know you hear me;)


  • 13 years ago
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Lee Ravitz
Actor

Thank you for that, Kate. I was, as usual, talking in generalisations on this forum, but am aware of much of the good work that is starting to develop within the wider Equity framework, and, as it continues to develop, I will be seriously considering adding my voice to the campaigning in some form (Andrew has already suggested that I may pursue election to the ITAC, which I will certainly give some thought to). At the same time, I hear what a voice of experience such as Alan's is saying, and I think the struggle that we may need to go through in order to get more recognition of the difficulties that are encountered at the 'disenfranchised' end of the profession (for want of a better word) need some acknowledgment. Still, I hold some hope that the situation may change for the better in the years to come - and this may simply be because, as the experience of more and more actors is necessarily informed by their having honed their trade in a period *after* the closed shop folded, the need to address changed realities within the profession will become ever more urgent and demanding for them.


  • 13 years ago
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Dan Gregory
Actor

Yes I too have many times been a deputy, and one of the reasons I always checked company members were in benefit was to make sure they had insurance. I would imagine that the cost of the equivalent cover for an individual would probably be as much as that of Equity Membership.
I hope that non-members who are working with other professionals are insured and that they are not disrespecting their co-workers by taking risks the equivalent of driving without insurance.


  • 13 years ago
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Private User
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I'll bear that in mind next time I knife throw on stage? I think your analogy is wrong, you dont need a licence to artistically express.


  • 13 years ago
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Dan Gregory
Actor

Venues do need an Entertainment licence and have a duty of care to their audiences. Permission is also needed for street theatre.


  • 13 years ago
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Cup of tea, anyone? :)


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