I feel I must comment on the front of people asking for crew and kit for free
especially soliciting over the phone to complete strangers.
If you want to make a film
save up, borrow, rob a drug store,get a grant till you can afford it.
Dont devalue peoples skills
I also have a bone with people who work for at least less than at least NMW
I realise people need experience however trainees are paid in this industry by reputable filmakers and HOD's
How can you value yourself if you dont get at least basically compensated for
your hard won skills and craft
Both the filmmakers and crew who participate in this are undermining the industry
I have been looking at this thread over the last few months and can see points by both sides.
As someone that has and is on both sides i/e hiring and applying there are times when as a company we have not been able to pay anyone for work on short films, this is because all the money went on production costs.
However there are also times where we can pay for crew mostly on corporate shoots, in this case we pay as much as we can, it is true we may be able to get people to work for us for free but its not right on a job that makes money.
As a crew member however it is up to me who i work for if the job is a no pay one. I have no problem working for free with some companies how ever the creeping trend of calling or email people for work asking you to come and work for them for free is a different manner.
Just this morning i have been sent a message about a job when calling to get more details i have been told that it is not a paid job, being told that you are working for experience. If you want people to work for free post the job up and let people that feel they need that experience come to you. DO NOT call/email people out of the blue and just expect them to work for you for experience especially when you don't check what experience level that person has to start with.
While it is a bad situation that people have to work for free at all at any level it is a reality at the moment and one that won't go away. There are a few people that on here have said that they got a job with a big company and were paid right off the bat. This is fantastic but understand you are in the minority its not that the people working for free haven't just put enough work in.
Basically if you need people to work for you for free then be honest about it, post it on jobsites and let the people that feel they would gain from it come to you, DON"T assume you're so great that anyone would be lucky to work for you just because you have so much to teach them... or at least check first that you're not writing to someone that has more experience than you do.....
I don't mind working for free. I understand that for film grads who want to break into the industry will probably have to work for free at some point. If someone can give me the experience in return then I am grateful. I find that the problem is even to get work experience on set or to be a runner, you need to have experience. Even if you are not going to be payed. I have applied to hundreds of work experience or film roles, but they all want someone who has worked on set before or who has some experience. Even some grad film productions! I think 'working for free' it is the nature of the film industry that people often work for free because of low-budgets, etc.
In every other profession you are payed for you're talent and time. I guess it's the nature of this industry. I cannot speak for professional individuals who already have experience. Maybe there are some people who feel exploited?
I think the distinction lies in "work" or "experience". If you're in a defined role on a production that has a budget and is commercial in the sense it will aim to make money (by being sold to a network/distributor) or get someone work (showreel/taster reel), that is work. It should be paid. No exceptions.
Experience can be gained by taking unpaid positions on a crew that isn't commercial. Better yet, start your own project and then you can choose what unpaid experience you get. As far as I can tell not paying someone for a commercial production is illegal. Even runner roles pay NMW. If they don't, go somewhere else to look for them. There are plenty of sites that list ONLY paid work.
I agree with Philip, in that I'm sick of reading smug ads by production teams who are "award-winning or "world-renowned" (seriously I saw an ad yesterday by a 'company' that claimed to be world-renowned but listed no details or links for their work). Particularly grating is the "this will be submitted to Cannes" or "you'll get a copy on DVD"… Of course I get a copy. That goes without saying. But why should I work for you. You have to convince me. If there is no fee, at least make a half-arsed effort at a pitch for the project. Demanding a minimum of a RED camera or steadicam or specific software, without telling me why I should bother is horrendously arrogant.
This is a really interesting subject and one of which I've been very conscious recently. I agree that working for free is dangerous and shouldn't be encouraged as it degrades each worker as well as the industry...
BUT
I'm just getting into the freelance industry and I've just bought myself some brand new kit. First of all I just want to get out there and record something with a crew, but the main thing is that I want to get used to using my new equipment out there in the heat of battle, and for those first couple of experiences I don't want the pressure of it being a paid job. I don't feel this is degrading myself in this instance, it's quite the opposite, as I want to be able to say genuinely "If I'm being paid for this it's going to be brilliant". I'm not certain of that position with fresh equipment and my first experiences with unknown crew (I used to work in a small, comfortable production company).
I don't disagree with any of the points against working for free except when it's a blanket statement saying it should be eliminated. One or two free jobs will do me the world of good. After which I ain't givin away nothin for free!
Just a baby vent…Why am i asked to provide equipment and have experience but yet they (Producers whatever) are not gonna pay me…..I give you something …..you give me something…its called payment. If you are not gonna pay …perhaps you provide the equipment yourself OR at least pay for the cost of what it would cost to hire it….There…am happy now :) xxx But it just amazes me how people want that chocolate cake but dont relies…they have to cook and bake it first!!!
Interesting debate, unfortunately it's a common one throughout the Creative Industries.
It's one thing being a low budget filmmaker starting out and wanting favours, but what I'm finding, it's also an excuse for free labour!
Rather than finding a budget to include the crew required, it's been "lets get one off of the Internet for free". These are the jobs that after working for free you never hear from again.
Interesting debate, unfortunately it's a common one throughout the Creative Industries.
It's one thing being a low budget filmmaker starting out and wanting favours, but what I'm finding, it's also an excuse for free labour!
Rather than finding a budget to include the crew required, it's been "lets get one off of the Internet for free". These are the jobs that after working for free you never hear from again.
As a stills photographer, I'm expected to bring my own equipment.
I'm curious to know if anyone has had equipment problems (not just stills people) on a job and have they been covered by their insurance? Or do your insurers not see this as "work" because you're not being paid and your kit is not covered?
I agree about being paid for work. I recently replied for a visit to a beauty product test for "anti-ageing". It is not cheap cosmetics and I am expected to pay £15.00 for my transport costs to get there, and only get £25 so I get £10 for a trip lasting 3 hours, so at £3+ a bit for an hour's work, who is making the money, certainly not me. After being unemployed for over 3 years, I cannot afford to accept £3.00, it is an insult
Yeah, £18 a month to sign up here and almost all of the jobs are expenses only or NMW for even senior positions.
Getting a job as a postman is starting to look good.
The hours AND wage are better.
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