Pencil

Private User
Actor

How often do we get asked to pencil in dates? by now I for one am getting a little browned off with this.Two days fresh in my mind are 5TH & 7TH November yes current,I penciled these in and turned down well paid work on both days in good faith,then heard nothing, not even given the courtesy of being told I was no longer needed.I think we should do away with the pencil although and make it Retainer then when not fully advised or kept up to date charge a fee.As professional artists we get abused by this system and loose a lot of our much needed income,Why Do We Stand For It. Barry Newton


  • 12 years ago
  • 31,151
  • 48
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Aah the elusive pencil. I have instructed my agent not to tell me if I've been "pencilled" for something as I start to spend the money in my head and it almost always comes to nothing... my motto is unless you've signed on the dotted line it don't mean a thing. I was once "Heavy Pencilled" for a credit card commercial only to see the part being played by an Asian Man once it aired !
Let them know you've been offered something else and if they want you they'll send you a contract
Happy Tuesday x


  • 12 years ago
  • 1
Farah Sardar
Actor

Ay. Was heavily pencilled in for an advert to dress up as the Milky Bar Kid. Not needed in the end. Saw the final ad and what do I see - bunch of silly people dressed up as the Milky Bar Kid !- Ooh err.


  • 12 years ago
  • 2
David Vale
Actor

You are quite right of course. Totally illogical not to be paid a retainer in exchange for being pencilled.

Why do we put up with it? Market forces!!

All the best, David


  • 12 years ago
  • 3

I love the varying degrees of pencil too. Sometimes it's a HEAVY pencil... Then nada. I'd like a fee for the inevitable disappointment that I have to suppress - Iast year had a pencil for 5 days in Marbella!


  • 12 years ago
  • 4

I was recently "pencilled" for a Ginger Joe ginger beer commercial. Not only pencilled for the shoot date, but a rehearsal date as well! My Agent phoned them several times, but no-one had made any decisions, apparently. Never did hear and turned down other auditions because of it, too! Shouldn't be allowed!!


  • 12 years ago
  • 5
Private User
This profile is private

Quite right Barry. I've been banging on about this for ever!

3 years ago....I put a storming list of requests on here that I think would be a fairer and a more business like way of working for both casting dir and the actor regarding audition follow up.

One of them was this: That we are paid £10 cash on the day for a 1st audition.
....that would stop a lot of the cattle calls .....not that I go to them...totally refuse to do so.

We all get paid for a recall in any case......or at least your agents jolly well should be passing that on to you all....are you checking that?!!

Therefore, my view is: we should be paid a deposit as a pencil booking...say £75 if cancelled within 2 weeks....and £150 if cancelled within 7 days. Lets face it…if one is pencilled it's because either you have the job….and if not that….because you are 2nd, 3rd fav etc….so they keep us hanging on in case there is a drop out through illness or whatever.

Then see how many pencils we'd all get!

Why does it happen...simples:... because the masses of actors and agents allow it ....I am afraid if I was offered good work or deemed it work I need to do....then I would simply ask my agent to either lift the pencil, or submit a definite contract and booking from the Co.. I believe it is your agents job to be firm with the film company. Do not lose sight of the fact the agent works for you....not the other way round!

Equally we as actors have to be respectful and honest and business like about these matters ourselves. I think my suggestions are very fair. If you buy something in a shop for a later date….you have to pay a deposit. If you put your name down for a house a deposit is taken…..its all perfectly fair and business like isn't it?


  • 12 years ago
  • 6
Lee Ravitz
Actor

I think Mark's answer in a sense is the only answer...which is to try and force the issue through judicious use of your agent on your behalf. From the casting point of view, as he says, sometimes the need for pencilling is actually beyond even the casting director's remit to control; it comes down to the clients umming and aahing about exactly who they wish to play something, or the MD of a given company has to greenlight everything three days late or, as Mark says, they are simply hedging their bets to try and ensure they secure second choices if the first drops out.

But, yes, there should probably be a claim that can be made or a set remuneration in the event of loss of earnings resulting from a pencil - after all, the casters concerned tell *you* with impunity to keep all dates open, sometimes across a ridiculous range.

With that said, if you already had some decently paid work on the days required, I don't know why you didn't just dismiss the project offering the pencilled date, and follow through with what was already on the cards. But I appreciate that an agent may be pushy if there is more money involved in the potential project than in the ones you are already attached to. And sometimes, it *is* worth dismissing moderately paid work that's guaranteed for the sake of potential work that will earn considerably more. It's always a tough call in that situation.


  • 12 years ago
  • 7
Gregory Cox
Actor

Barry, I'm sorry to hear you turned down paid work because of a 'pencil'. My motto is a bird in the hand... never, ever turn down paid work for something which is only a possibility. I know of actors who have all gone to the same audition, compared notes afterwards and discovered they were ALL 'on a pencil'!! And yes, none of them got it! Don't let them take us for mugs!


  • 12 years ago
  • 8
Robin Miller
Actor

That last comment should have come from me - I sent it from Gregory's account by mistake! Suffice it to say, I agree!


  • 12 years ago
  • 9

I ve had lots of pencils and heavy pencils . I ve learnt not to get giddy about the jobs anymore. It's like the saying, nothing's sold until its signed!!


  • 12 years ago
  • 10
Nicky Campbell
Actor, Dancer

Just came across this and felt compelled to comment. One particular company have pencilled me 3 times on three separate jobs. The first I was pencilled for 2 weeks (being told to keep 4 days free). I was then told the pencil was off 4 days before the job. The second I was pencilled for a week and then told at 9pm the night before the job that I was no longer needed. Most recently I was pencilled for 2.5 weeks and told yesterday I was no longer needed (job is on Tuesday and I was asked to keep 3 days free). This is ridiculous and most unfair on working professionals. We are simply trying to earn a living like everyone else but situations like this make a mockery of our profession. Being dropped as and when they choose like a sag of spuds. I can only hope that things change in the future...but I doubt they ever will.


  • 10 years ago
  • 11
Mark Joseph
Actor

Pencils mean nothing, absolutely nothing. I don't even bat an eyelid when I get one these days. Other than writing the dates in your diary to avoid possible clashes later, completely ignore them.


  • 10 years ago
  • 12
Private User
This profile is private

was at a casting last year...and watched the check in girl pencil every single attendee....including those of us who had not even gone into the casting!


  • 10 years ago
  • 13
Julia Lacey
Actor

Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option


  • 10 years ago
  • 14
User Deleted
This profile has been archived

I was pencilled in for a commercial too, then never heard another thing... Would have been nice to have been told either way!


  • 10 years ago
  • 15
Private User
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I see it that until it's penned in, those dates are free to book definite jobs. When an offer comes in that clashes with a pencil, approach them, say you need to know now. If they give no answer or ask to keep it free, I book the job on offer.
I think I've been penned for about 10% of 'pencils', at best. They're not worth a thing.


  • 10 years ago
  • 16

To being with getting a pencil would get me very excited but as the years have moved on and this industry being flooded by people who work for peanuts being pencil means little to me. I talk with my agent when I'm penciled for a job and if I'm offered another paid job my agent says yes and makes them fight the case, if they want you they will hire you. It's wrong that they hold so much power and we wait by the phone praying for it to ring we've said yes to the dates so we are free and as Mark saids if they want us to keep it free but a decision is not yet made them giving us a little something will give us confidence in the job and make sure we are free.


  • 10 years ago
  • 17
Lee Saunders
Actor

Until reading this, I felt guilty about applying for auditions where shooting days clashed.

Do I need to change my position from one of not wanting to let someone down in the event of two 'Yes' responses, to 'Until I have the contract in my hand, I'm available'?

If the casting director can rub out a pencil, then perhaps the talent should be able to as well.

The idea of the cancellation fee mentioned above is good one. After all, it is the casting director/company that is asking for our services as an entity.

Is the following a fair breakdown of the process?

1) Casting director/company puts their role(s) out for tender
2) Actors make their offers (audition) to provide acting services at an agreed rate.
3) The pencil gets used as a means to prevent the actor booking other services for the dates set (acceptance of offer through a reservation).
---
As soon as someone is told to reserve time for another, I think that is acceptance of the offer, and as with some types of reservation, cancellation fees may apply.


  • 10 years ago
  • 18
Forbes KB
Actor

Pencil schmencil! All a pencil does, no matter what shade, is allow an indecisive production company to mess you about while they make up their minds. In 2010 I had 17 pencils and 17 cancellations the day before the shoot...needless to say I lost a whole load of my income that year because I was turning down guaranteed paid work in favour of pencilled acting work.

The pencil system, which used to work pretty well, has been totally abused in recent years to the point where they mean nothing and I now take whatever work confirms first.


  • 10 years ago
  • 19

Iv been penciled in for a 3 month stint on a war film, but I WILL keep looking for work just in case..

In any other field being pencilled in is just that, something easily rubbed out, and forgive me if I have got this wrong, but every street I walk is TWO WAY! so, although ll give preference to the job I'm pencilled with, if a firm offer comes up ill be making decisions..

Tony..


  • 10 years ago
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