Race change

Interesting to read the continual responses to my original post.

In response to Brain, the commercial wasn't advertising a product, it was advertising the Supermarket, and so in light of what you said, it shouldn't have been directed at a "majority" race. The supermarket would have been more appealing if the original brief was adhered to and a variety of "ethnic" people were seen, and as a result, would have increased their business!

Secondly, once again we really need to move on from this misguided idea that being non white in the business is a major plus and advantageous, with regards to competition.

Statistically, you are at an advantage of being seen by casting directors, experiencing more castings, and ultimately landing a casting, as a white actor, due to the sheer number of "caucasian" castings, despite there being more white actors on the circuit, than compared to a non white or racially mixed casting.

I was at a recent "last minute casting", race specific, and despite the casting being last minute, the casting director was still inundated with responses, in that, not only was the casting suite packed throughout the day, but also many submissions had to be rejected due to the sheer number.

In addition, the actors had to be bilingual, yet the numbers were still full!

I think, through no fault of their own, some caucasian actors have not experienced non white castings and therefore are not aware that it's just as competitive, or even more so.

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Alan I think we have all been involved in a 'cattle call,' a supermarket is a product just like a tin of beans,I have been in supermarkets where you see no foreign faces what so ever. Advertising and casting is appealing to who goes where and who buys what,not who played Othello at Harrogate Rep.
Peace Brian

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Brian, interesting comment.Wondered if you have ever worked in retail, as I have, and noticed the variety of people shopping there.
How long were you in the supermarket for to produce such "accurate statistics"?

In addition i'm interested to know what your definition of "foreign faces is"? My understanding of foreign is people from abroad/an or non british, rather than colour?

Perhaps then the advertisers, if they take your stance on advertising, should be extremely careful, as they are ruling out probably 90% of their outlets, demographically.

As far as you example of Othello, I do recall history-wise there have been blacked up caucasian actors, playing Othello, but I don't recall a non white Mr D'Arcy?

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Alan can we stick to the main route here,of course supermarkets in London and the big cities have a wide variety of black and coloured people shopping in them. Outside in the country as a whole that is where I get my 'accurate observations' from. Ok lets swap Othello for Hamlet (Adrian Lester)
Casting is in the hands of the playwright. Also the director who wants to experiment and conceive an alternative.
Lastly advertisers do an awful lot of research which usually gets them to the right page in the end.
Product v Actor... actor will always lose in the end.
Brian

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'Foreign faces' 'coloured people'. Are we in the 50s and someone forgot to tell me?

I have a TV writer friend, who, writing for a really well-known series three or four years ago, wrote some of his major characters with recognisably black names. (Please no-one aske me if there are recognisably black names; I've never met a white woman called Tanisha). The producers asked were the characters supposed to be black, and when told they were, said he had to change them to white, as 'black people can't act on that level.' My God. |f it were up to that producer, no black person would ever get enough experience to be able to 'act on that level'. Can you wonder why Adrian Lester, David Harewood, Marianne Baptiste etc, had to go to USA to get careers that matched their talent?

I've been having this conversation for years and I'm so sad that I still have to have it. Alan is perfectly right.

I keep asking, and no-one is answering, of the white people in the forum, would YOU feel that an advert with a black lead isn't talking to you? Even if it were for a well-known product ?

I remember the outrage when people questioned why a certain little girl character in The Hunger Games movie was black, when she had been described as having 'brown skin' and other non-white markers, and this makes me very afraid. If a character who is clearly meant to be black is not accepted as such in a screen adaptation, authors will not write black characters if they hope for movie/TV deals. Yet another door closing for us.

Anyone who thinks this is the same as having red hair really is thinking from 'white privilege'.

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Well I think your writer friend's experience was outrageous!

I don't know what the percentage actually is now in Britain of ethnic britons vs white. But I'm pretty sure in London where I live it's pretty high. So I see absolutely no reason why modern day scripts shouldn't reflect that.

With period I guess it would depend how it's done. If it's set in the period and they're aiming for accuracy I guess casting would have to reflect the population at that particular time. But certainly lots of Shakespeare is teased and tweaked so much that it could be set anywhere anytime. And again that should mean we see colour blind casting.

As for your other point, no, I wouldn't be put off a product being advertised by a black lead just because they were black! That's not to say I like all adverts and all the leads - some are just downright irritating full stop! But that's a different point!

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Brain, I only responded to the tangent created, with regards to supermarkets and demographics. My observations were made in supermarkets, tiny ones at those, in Congleton, Cheam, Anglesey and Ballymena, and guess what, I was a "coloured (using the term in response) person" in that shop.

To bring closure to this created tangent from the original argument, the advert was about "home grown veg" products, and showed various people doing this from window boxes to allotments.
I own an allotment, and I can assure you most allotments up and down the country are multicultural. It WASN'T advertising a particular product. Let's close that angle and concentrate on the original issue here.

Advertiser DON'T necessarily do the correct advertising, and on a whole, with castings feel "safe" not to deter from what they imagine is the norm.

Of course most commercial castings are cattle markets, regardless of race and ethnic background, but we have to remember, the original issue is still very apparent in this business and need to be addressed.

If the shoe was on the other foot, i'm sure other feathers would have been ruffled.

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Ok Alain, points taken, but in a lot of cases of casting there are no shoes on any feet. I am an older actor, when asked to appear at a casting for a grandfather I don't go. I know in the clients eyes I don't represent what they are 'looking' for, we all have our problems.If we the actors were doing the casting I am sure a lot more people would get a lot more of the jobs available.Instead of the few getting most.Excuse me but you write as if I am the enemy, believe you me I am entirely on your side in a casting discussion.Every day actors time and monies are being wasted going for the wrong briefs.
Unfortunately actors have no control what so ever in our industry.
How do we change that?
Have a good W/E
Brian

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Remember agents and casting directors are not our friends.
The only friends you have are all the other actors in the world.
BC

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Thank you, Meryl.

Everyone have a happy and safe weekend, and may your castings be plentiful!

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As someone who has worked on both sides of the table I think there is an issue with race (and even more so with gender - how many times has the female character's description been 'very beautiful' yet the male character's description for the same project actually describes his personality and doesn't mention looks!) in castings. I agree that the OP's experience will have been down to the client rather than the CD. To give you another example of how quickly a client can change their mind for seemingly ridiculous reasons to the casting team, I recently cast a music video where the client cut 6 female featured artists out of the project completely as I had not shown him 'anyone pretty' (I had brought in 100 models / actresses from top agencies and all were stunning) and having spoken to other CDs about the race issue in castings, they are anxious to bring in more diversity and fight the stereotyping of actors and races / nationalities by the media.

I recently met a historian who has shed some illuminating light on historical accuracy and diversity in Britain - you may want to read this http://www.mirandakaufmann.com/3/post/2013/11/presenting-the-black-past-how-history-must-change-the-media.html

As a mixed race actor I was once told (by some actors in a co-op agency) I was 'uncastable' because 'no one knew what I was' (what and not who, ridiculous!) - this is clearly not true! We are all extremely 'castable' no matter what our gender, race, height, age etc - and in terms of plays, films and TV, writers are writing less race and looks specific parts - a decent casting director (and 99% are, honestly!)will look for actors who meet the requirements of the characters.

I think in terms of competition with fellow actors, more people will be initially applying for the role of Elizabeth Bennett (specified Caucasian) than a role specifying an ethnic minority but those latter roles are far fewer than the 'English rose' roles...so it's a question of less likely to get in the room in the first place for non-Caucasian actors but less competition once you are in the room.

I think more people are aware of the representation of characters to reflect our real life society at the moment - casting directors, actors and audience and I think a change for the better is coming. Have a great Sunday everyone!

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Thank you for that, Nadia. Yes,people tend not to know that black people were in London and Liverpool in Victorian times. Didn't she try and get rid of them, complaining there were 'too many' in London? Whenever a black person is cast in a period drama, there is always the cry of the anti-'politically-correct' brigade to contend with, but they tend to be selectively-informed.

The beauty thing for actresses is very annoying, too. I am reading a book at the moment where the male MC (main character) is a tubby, drug-withdrawing, slovenly cop, while his wife is so gorgeous she, rather than teenage girls, is getting looks from the hunky lifeguard at the beach; of course though she's had two kids, she rocks a bikini, AND his female colleague is also 'stunning'.

There was a funny tweet by a smart woman writer a few weeks ago, headed 'HETERO MEN, YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU, BUT PLEASE STOP DOING THIS, FOREVER', and highlighting a male writer's description of a female character : 'she's beautiful but doesn't know it.' I think it got retweeted and favourited about a thousand times.

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A very interesting discussion from every point of view. Thanks to Nadia and Tracey for providing some enlightening history, both past and present. And hats off to everyone who didn't let it descend into an online spat.

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Iv had the exact same experience i went for a part in a fast food advert for a white girl 25-30 they cast a Asian boy 18,i dont let it get me down im never going to be a Asian boy so if he was right for the part all the best to him.However it is a little annoying when you spend money getting to a casting your perfect for and they cast some one who is nothing like-however as a young(ish)blonde girl its nice to not walk in to a room with lots of different variations of my self
a tall me
a fat me
a thin me
lighter blonde me
darker blonde me ect

however on the up side i do get to see what different hair styles would look like on me lol

My gran always says what is meant for you wont pass you by and thats what i think ever time i dont get a role

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In terms of advertising I echo what has already been said -Unfortunately sometimes the marketing company and advertisers have no idea what they are looking for - even when they cast and put out a specific post. This is idiocy in itself!

As someone who works both sides of camera, I always try and distill exactly what is needed casting wise as I don't want to waste anyones time including my own!

There is so much miscommunication and randomness in this industry and its purely that, i.e. ineptitude on their part - unfortunately.

I know very often this at the actors expense and time but there really is no more to it than that - production ineptitude.

Tracey it's not just women who get cast for beauty or against the written characters traits...

A couple of examples that spring easily to mind are

The Character Jack Reacher is as written

Reacher is 6'5" tall (1.96 m) with a 50-inch chest, and weighing between 220 and 250 pounds (100–115 kg). He has ice-blue eyes and dirty blond hair. He has very little body fat, and his muscular physique is completely natural (he reveals in Persuader, he has never been an exercise enthusiast). He is exceptionally strong, has a high stamina, but is not a good runner.[14]
Reacher has various scars,

So Up steps Tom Cruise to play Jack Reacher 5 ft 7 in or 170 cm 67 kg or 148 pounds Brown eyes brown hair..... :-)

If you read the Jason Bourne novels as well you'd find that although Matt Damon played him really well he was about 20 yrs too young when it was filmed and had nowhere near the injuries and scars that he should of had in the films....

This is our crazy industry!

Best to all and keep striving regardless! ;-)

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