Have just been reading some of the threads, including the one started by Timo, and it struck me - as it so often does on this forum - that CCP members construct and inhabit a curious parallel universe:
i) on the hand, there is the view - both implicit and explicit - that those people who have attended drama school are convulsed by snobbery and a sense of superiority whenever they encounter an actor who hasn't;
ii) on the other, there is the demonstrable defensiveness and sense of inferiority exhibited on this site by those who DID attend drama school, because they are continually forced onto the defensive by precisely those attitudes outlined above.
Those of us who did attend drama school are told so often on this site to "get over" the fact, that I'm starting to feel that it's not actually our problem.
Or is that just my imagination?
All of the above is also symptomatic of another tendency I have noticed on this forum, which is the tendency constantly to try and find mechanisms and criteria by which we can all JUDGE each other's success or otherwise. The only possible valid criterion in such an exercise is one predicated on how often a given individual works professionally. BUT, having said that, it's simply not anyone else's place to judge in the first place, surely?
flippin heck guys- i go home for one day and my inbox goes crazy! thanks for your commments Blake, i was as you guessed, a bit of a naughty boy.. and mr lander (cant remenber if its high or low)- its got to be silvers every time...
Going back to the original thread (which seems to have been long forgotten in the subsequent trail of Kruger related silliness!) something came to mind which I thought worth considering.
I went to see Titus Andronicus at The Globe recently and whilst the production was generally good, what annoyed me most was that I really strained to hear several of the main actors. You can bet your bottom dollar that those actors would have attended 'proper' drama schools. It beggars belief that someone can spend three years at a top drama school, lands a role at one of Britain's most prestigious venues, yet still be unable to do their job properly.
Naturally, the fault is with those individuals, not the places at which they trained. But I guess that it just shows that whilst 'proper' training doesn't guarantee success with one's career, it also doesn't necessarily create or develop ability. Furthermore, these actor's lack of ability didn't stop them landing an illustrious opportunity. Ain't life strange?!
Whilst I'm neutral on the 'to train or not to train' debate, scenarios such as the one outlined above show that it really doesn't matter who you are or what you've done (or, seemingly, whether you're actually any good). You just need the arbitrary intersection of luck, contacts and circumstances.
High Plains, its quite possible those guys may have been trained/experienced much more on screen so they havent the necessary technique for projection (A lot of TV names are put into theatre for BOS purposes but like you say, it all gets slightly lost !) A good actor should be a good all-rounder - Pacino! Hoffman! Spacey! Affleck (oops)
AAhhh- High PLAINS!! i was lost in aworld of scottish sword fighting immortals. This really annoys me too- ive been to so many productions where the voice work has been appalling- surely this is a basic skill?! I think the concept of the "Triple Threat" has been a bit lost in the modern media translation. Its now how you look, who you date, and whether you are considered "famous" enough to eat a kangaroos testicle live on air...
What gets me though, is didn't the people responsible for casting Titus (who are primarily Theatre people) have sufficiently enhanced powers of perception to realise that these actors couldn't deliver the goods? It's just worrying. I know what you're saying about these days theatre work often comes through notoriety rather than through talent, but I mean, this is meant to be The Globe!
Have they no shame?! None of these actors had been on the cover of Hello! (not that I read it, of course) - who knows, maybe it was just who they knew. Still, ability should be the bottom line, otherwise it undermines the whole experience.
I agree - I saw an ex Brookside regular in THE CRUCIBLE and it soon became an exercise in unsupported shouting before his voice gave out. Yes, Ray, the concept of the Triple Threat is a wonderful New York work ethic we'd do well to emulate. I had a NY stage actor as a tutor at E15 and his audition workshops were hugely inspiring. The closest we have to a good role model triple threat superstar at the moment is Hugh Jackman...
Hugh Jackass? dont make me laugh- hows about Alan Cummings? (am trying to think of others in XMEN, but am pretty sure Messrs stewart and Macellen might be getting on a bit for high octane Jazz dance.. I would pay to see either of them body-pop though.
Indeed, I enjoyed the Kruger Chat. My '!' was intedned to denote a shared sense of fun, yet perhaps I should have used the contemporary codification of :) or whatever it is people do these days,
I've seen some people come through fantastically and become really ready for a professional career.
On the other hand, I've seen people emerge no different than when they went in, other than being £20,000 down.
Most horrificly though, I've also seen reams of terrible advice being handed out to people. It would appear quite a few tutors are possibly rather jaded, and give bad advice because they no longer have to live it.
Obviously there are exceptions, but I don't believe students are being prepared as well as they should be. E.g. one friend of mine had her showcase coming up at a prestigious school. Out of 30ish students, none of them had heard of any agencies other than ICM!!! She only had because she'd talked to me. What are people being taught about the business?
The skills of the trade are one thing, but the business side vital. I know schools set aside time to teach this stuff, but it's way below what it should be. I've had to explain what PCR is to people from RADA. Surely that's not right.
Following on from what you say about tutors at institutions sometimes being jaded, that's why I think The Actors' Centre (London) is good. You're learning from real actors and directors who are out there in the industry doing real work. You can check a teacher out by doing a class or two, and if you don't like them or their methodology, simply don't sign up for more classes. There's nothing worse than being stuck with some twisted, bitter old pedagogue for a three month term with no means of escape, short of opting out and prolonging your course.
I was teaching voice at an actor training centre before I got my tour and many of the people who came in for session, were quite scarily unable to use their voices etc, or had been to a drama school etc and thier voices were bad.
I saw a West end musical recently where the one female lead was miked etc, and yet i still couldnt hear her!!! so the vocal issue is a serious problem, and IS a Dramam Training 101. If you cant be heard...how can people engage in your performance??????
"I would not kick Hugh Jackass out of bed for eating rich teas..."
lol Helen, I can't actually think of ANYTHING that would make me kick Hugh out of my bed!
Sorry for lowering the tone of the discussion, interesting stuff that I have far too many thoughts on to actually make coherant at this time of night after a long day in London and a big scary audition!
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