A hypothetical scenario.

If a surgeon screws up people die! If a plumber screws up boilers explode and people die. If a builder screws up walls collapse and people die! If an actor screws up, they reset back to ones and go again!

Not really the same thing!

The creative industries are very subjective. Anyone can and does have a go...the trick is making a living from it which is getting harder and harder unless you have multiple strings to your bow!

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Virtually everyone on the other side of the camera is highly skilled and trained Forbes,they make up a large percentage of the creative industries, I like to think they are not just "giving it a go".

By the way I have seen an unskilled actor stab another actor through the shoulder blades on an opening night. It could have been worse!

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That's on the other side of the camera though...and didn't a trained actor cut his own throat himself live on stage too not that long ago!

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We're all part of a creative industry whatever side of the camera.

I hadn't heard of the throat cutting incident. It seems acting can be a matter of life or death.

Nevertheless the principle remains. You can't just walk into other professions or trades without going through the hoops.

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I suppose in truth I'm not too worried about A and B against C the chances are A or B will get the part, however when we get D E F G H I J K L M N etc etc what chance do A and B stand then!
The whole profession will dissolve into anarchy, no one will be able to make a living from it and everyone will be an amateur as in someone who does it for a hobby and not a living.

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The neck slashing incident...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7777086.stm

As much as some like to think it is, acting is not a life or death industry providing proper precautions are put in place by the stunt/fight choreographers and technical crews behind the scenes!

Certainly things can go wrong, like in any other industry, but the vast majority of it is not life threatening or in the least bit dangerous whereby the public or even the participants need to be protected by industry bodies! That's why we have JISC! Those guys take the risks on our behalf!

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Couldn't agree more Forbes.
Once again another good example of professionals in the creative industries whose standards and vocation are maintained by training, education and their individual professional bodies.

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and that's my point! If there's a need to protect the general public and the participants in any industry by all means put a licencing system in place.

When I'm not acting I freelance as a Class 1 HGV driver tramping around European motorway network! I'm fully licenced, have a recurrent training program mandated by EU Law, have a full medical every 5 years, a spy in the cab (the Tachograph) to make sure I comply with all the relevant legislation and have my standard of driving reassessed by my various employers every 3 months and quite rightly so. Trucking is a dangerous profession!

However, when I'm on set doing my thing the same dangers don't apply and I'm not a danger to the public or my fellow actors 'cos there's usually a stunt choreographer or HSE Rep on set watching my every move and ensuring our safety...he/she is usually licenced or, in the lb/Indie world, JISC member in training!

Returning to your original question, protecting A & B from C takes us right back to the closed shop days and like any of the arts, one mans Picasso masterpiece is another mans childish scribble.

It's all a matter of perspective and C may well have a natural gift that after 35 years of trying A & B have yet to achieve!

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Do you really have to go through all those hoops to to be employed in an HGV?
Blimey?
I was going to take it up as a job tomorrow, after all it's not rocket science, it's just driving.

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Exactly! It's just driving, but with an untrained operator behind the wheel a 44t rig is a deadly weapon! In the past 8 years I've lost 3 of my trucking friends in motorway pileups!

A 90 page script is still just paper with a story written on it and no ones ever died because they were dyslexic or stepped over someone elses lines!

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On saying that a Fiat Panda in the hands on a 12 year old is also a deadly weapon but I'm sure you see the comparison I'm trying to make!

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And having been on set when the largest sound stage in Europe - de Paulis in Rome - burnt down because the pyrotechics guys got it wrong I would hate to think what would have happened if the hundreds of extras in the casino scene had been amateurs. The director was trying to get us to go back in because the effects were so good.
The whole lot was gone in a matter of minutes.

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re-read the OP and have a question:
What exactly is the difference between Actor B 35 years ago and Actor C? Both didn't train and both were or are learning on the job...
Where would you draw the line for someone to learn the craft? Why does it matter when in life someone feels the compulsion to "go for it"? Probably am biased as I came to it fairly late myself and switched careers in my mid-thirties - so do need people my age be protected from me as well then?
(Mind you I totally agree that it becomes dangerous when Actor C undercuts the prices because he can. But as long as all play by the same rules I think it's fair game... literally as well as figuratively)

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With all due respect Forbes, your sledge hammer to crack a nut philosophy, that the only reason people can't just walk into other trades and professions is because everyone will die, doesn't deflect from the fact that you can't just walk in overnight.

Incidentally, I spent (survived) 12 years as a motorcycle courier; I have also known good men die on the roads. So although it's not rocket science, I agree professional driving is a hard and dangerous occupation, you have my utmost respect there.

Christopher the difference between B and C is this. Forgetting about the end of the closed shop for a moment, just ten years ago there was no internet. So B's efforts to attain professional paid work required a lot of tenacious hard work. There were still hoops to jump through.Today there are none.

I suppose the present state is what it is, and that's that.

But I'll say this; the laws of economics dictate that the profits at the top can be increased, because the payment of wages can be decreased due to the huge supply of labour. This something we see happening every day.

And one last thing if I may, in answer to some of the PM's I received. I am not trying to "shatter people's dreams" I'm just asking questions about the current state of the industry.

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Good point about the internet David. It has all become so much easier to find castings now. None of the walks to the post office with twenty letters every day. Sending out dozen upon dozen 10x8s which if they were returned would be too bent to use again. No waiting at agents for SBS to arrive. Much less face to face travelling round knocking on doors and meeting people face to face. It used to take up more hours finding work than a day rehearsing. It did sort out the wheat from the chaff too. If you didn't put in the effort you weren't very likely to succeed.
OMG I miss all that!

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I've been reading these exchanges with interest and some irritation.

What, then, is the point of a formal Drama School training? Those who consider auditions should be a free-for-all for anyone who wants to pitch up would probably dismiss a proper acting training as unecessary, then...?

Those of us who were fortunate and single-minded enough to attend Drama School (already having made the decision that acting was going to be our chosen profession/vocation) undertook intensive study of the craft, the technique and the practice. We were coached in voice production, physicality, classical text, studied practitioners and styles, the history of the craft and the disciplines. There is - as we all appreciate, I'm sure - a skill involved.

Having said that, we all know that Actor C (in the casting situation David mentioned) may fit the bill for the job better than Actors A and B, because of his physical characteristics, the timbre of his voice, his gait, his nose, his hair... There is nothing we can do about that. Sometimes fortune swings your way; sometimes it doesn't. And yes, we have to accept that Actor C, in that scenario, may just exude something that the director was looking for.

I rather miss the days when Equity was a closed shop. It was tough getting one's ticket then, but once it was finally acquired, it was a keenly earned prize and our 'passport' into the business for which we'd trained so intensely. And we were all protected from the likes of Actor C who just fancied 'having a go' because, quite simply, he didn't posses an Equity card. And the sad thing is that I don't bother subscribing to Equity any more. There is no longer any professional cachet to membership. Its spine has crumbled.

Tomorrow, I think I'll be a barrister. It's only getting up in court with a funny wig on and pontificating, isn't it? (Oh, silly me - I quite forgot the Law Society and its requirements.)

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Just to clarify that there are very few trade resrictions that apply to skilled manual jobs except for Gas safe and Electrcal safety certificates. If you have a saw and a hammer you can become a carpenter. If you have a blowtorch and a spanner you can become a plumber. You will be judged on you're ability to do the job not your training.

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As always, these hypothetical scenario discussions turn into a debate between those who trained and those, like myself, who didn't!

As an untrained actor, I wouldn't dream if tackling areas of the industry whereby I wouldn't stand a chance against the classically trained actors! I know my limitations and rarely step outside a chosen path within which I stand a fair chance of making progress!

Does that make me a bad person? Muscling in on someone elses territory? No it doesn't...it's the way of the world and it's a tough old world out there these days! I got into acting when I was made redundant after a 20 year career in the aviation industry...9/11 put paid to that!

Should we allow thousands of EU migrants come over here and take "our jobs"? Not the same debate I know but the similarities between the elitists who think acting should be a closed shop with trained actors protected and nationalists who think we should build a big wall to protect our shores from the European invasion are very close!

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And before you start attacking me for appearing to have "BNP like" political views, I don't!

I welcome anyone over here as long as they are contributing to society and not just freeloading. I welcome everyone into the acting game as long as they feel they have something to contribute and the gatekeepers agree by casting them then in stuff then it's all good!

I'll continue to work hard and hopefully my contribution will improve over time!

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i think most angles are covered by more articulate writers already so i'm just going to chip my two penneth in with a homage to a real life Actor C

Buster Merryfield

he served in the army in WW2 and worked for Natwest for 40 years eventually becoming a bank manager he was a keen am-dramer and sportsman on the side.

at 57 he retired and started to pursue a new career in professional acting ( i'm sure one of the elder and more experienced actors on here will be able to tell me if 1977 was still 'closed shop' days for actors) he got some work with a rep company and a few small roles on TV.

in 1984/85 he was cast as Uncle Albert in the very successful Only Fools and Horses a much loved character that made him a household name. After this role ended he was still performing on stage and in panto until shortly before his death from a brain tumor in 1999 aged 79.

when he auditioned for only fools and horses he would have had 6 or 7 years professional experience against other actors in their 60s who had 40 or 50 years experience. i'm sure that actors A,B (and D-Z for that matter) were gutted not to have been cast and regaled their friends with 'it should have been me stories' but you'd have to be pretty hard nosed, i think, not to admit that he deserved it and did a cracking job.

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