Casting director workshops- whats the score?

by the way Blake, it's not entirely true that "CD workshops are illegal in the States and actors are considered desperate and needy".
What's illegal is to pay to be seen, which is why they call these "workshops", they are supposed to teach you.
In practice, most of these workshops consist of the CD giving you a side and partner, you prepare 5 min then you go in and read; if you're lucky you do it twice and then goodbye.
Pretty much every actors who have little or no credits, at co-star/guest star level do them for the big CDs who do not bring them in.
Once they know you exist, if you impressed them, they start calling you in.
If you've already got plenty of guest star credits, all the CDs call you in to read regularly anyway so workshops are not useful.

• 14 years ago
• 21

I went on a CD workshop a couple of months ago and found it very useful. I can't say I learned anything new about the industry or the audition process, but it was good practice and also useful to actually see myself on camera. I certainly haven't had enough TV training at drama school, so every little helps.

And £35 for 4 hours was really quite good.

• 14 years ago
• 22

And a view from the US:

http://www.backstage.com/bso/news-and-features-news/casting-workshop-crackdown-1004090772.story

• 13 years ago
• 23

I am often put off by the amount CD's charge for very short workshops and would spend no more than £35 max on a full day workshop. Instead I would much rather spend my hard earned cash on workshops with brilliant directors and feel that I am probably learning a lot more from them and having the opportunity to gain knowledge from very experienced directors I would otherwise (at this point in my career) not have the opportunity to meet.

• 13 years ago
• 24

I've now attended 3 workshops hosted by the same casting Director, Annelie Powell, and I can honestly say I found them very worthwhile and very informative. 2 of the workshops were 11/10 for the sheer hard work that the guest CDs did. Each one was subtly different because each was lead by a different guest CD. I had personal feedback at one workshop, and am waiting for written personal feedback for another.

I think these workshops are very useful for actors like me, with a few years experience, but who haven't had a break into TV yet. I don't think they'd be as useful if you have no acting for camera training or experience, because they aren't designed to teach the basics of this skill, but to hone what you already have. And let's face it, even though these workshops are very specifically advertised as NOT AUDITIONS, we all know that if you make a really good job of the reading you do, these CDs may well remember you if/when a suitable role comes up.

So, it's a personal choice that each and every one of us has to make, whether to pay for workshops with Casting Directors or not. If they are as good as the ones I've been to, I will happily continue to attend, as and when funds allow. This business, just like the rest of the world, continues to change, and at a pace faster than many like. I think we have to accept that the days of the general are long gone, except in a very few cases, and these workshops allow us to hone our skills AND have the opportunity to impress (or not!) people who may influence our future careers.

• 13 years ago
• 25

I don't often visit these chats - but this caught my eye -

I agree you should NEVER pay for an audition - but these aren't auditions.

I've been to a fair number of Annelie Powell's workshops and the casting directors have given CV & Headshot advice (invaluable) and some have put you on camera and given advice and response about audition technique and when you take it and see it work - that's great. One casting director even took his recordings home and (once his workload casting for a new feature was done)sent personal emails back, he even looked at my showreel for me and gave advice.

As well as this, it's a great way for Casting Directors to see and work with you. As mentioned by others, if you don't have the right agent, or haven't been seen before then - well, there's only so many fringe shows one person can go to a week! And how often are you really in the PERFECT role to be seen in at the right venue?

However, for me, the most valuable thing these workshops have done is take away nerves. Previously, if I'd been offered an audition at the BBC for John Cannon, or for a fabulous Shakespeare peice with Ginny Schiller, for example, even for a three line role I'd have been filled with nerves ~ these are big casting directors who've been linked with amazing work. Now? I know they are lovely people who just want you to enjoy the audition and be the best you can be.

Yes not all the casting directors have quite the CV of the two above, but why should we question new CD's ability to help us more than they should question new or unseen actors' ability to help them?

If you're not paying more than you can afford (I wouldn't pay more than £30) why wouldn't you want to meet these (generally) lovely people, who may be able to impart advice and give feed-back in a non-feedback world, in a relaxed setting?

Keep your tools sharp and your toolbox full is what I say!

JQ

PS When I was in LA last year, casting and audition technique workshops were everywhere!

• 13 years ago
• 26

Casting workshops, should be just that....casting WORKSHOPS.....not chats!

I have been on three of these....and found two of them an utter rip off....and one of them quite fun...but also a bit pointless if I am really honest.

After all, do you really need to learn or expect to be told what you should already know?

Ie: Your picture must look like you? Your CV should be well laid out? You should have a good showreel which should show you off well? A little bit on the casting process for TV and film....A million pages and videos on Google cover that. Don't send us DVD reels, they almost certainly will not be viewed etc etc

Any basic drama school course which does not cover this sort of thing should return its yearly fees to the students in my opinion. Any school that has not held plenty mock TV auditions to camera, film auditions and theatre castings, and explained all the processes of how it all works.....should def return its yearly fees!

I put this all under the banner of "The acting business" and I include basic lessons in marketing yourself and basic admin for actors within that. Anyone who is self-employed should know how to do this.

If you have come into the business late and not done the drama school route, then I guess one of these WORKSHOPS could be deemed useful......as long as they are well run and genuine.

Cost for a 2hr class....£35 max I'd say. Should the casting Dir's do this simply to make money....well I guess they are entitled to earn a crust! If they are doing these evenings to simply help actors, then why not hold more one to one meetings at their offices?

WORKSHOPS: Should inc the opportunity to read opposite other actors and gain some feedback from the casting dir....and the rest of the class. This would be fun and handy I guess.

The first WORKSHOP I went on was with a well known casting Dir, and she spoke about the most obvious stuff, and then kept popping out to answer her mobile....she also had the cheek to talk to a friend of hers who rudely popped her head around the door, as if we were not in the room. Most of the other time was taken up listening to her name dropping! Money totally down the drain.

I went to a voice over workshop and that was another waste of space and money. They did not even want to take our voice over CD's for assessment claiming they would not have time to listen to them. I asked for my money back as within the sales pitch for the workshop, they had asked for any actors own VO CD's to be bought along for assessment. They refused them.....and so that was another waste of time and cash.

Believing in 3rd time lucky and having some spare cash, I went to one other as it was just £35 and was promised to be an interactive WORKSHOP...not just a talk. It was and it was well run. The Casting director also took my existing reel with her, and emailed me a few days later with complimentary views and thoughts about the evening and the reel. She's never called me in though....a year or more down the line!
So for me, I think they are usually a bit of a waste of time and money.....but if well run ..could be really useful for some. Dare I say though, they mostly tell you what you "want" to hear perhaps?

Paying simply to be seen.....will disappoint. Paying to gain some basic advice, might be handy, though you will not hear much more than what any reasonably experienced actor with TV credits will tell you.

There are no big secrets in this business, a little reminder of what one should be doing could be deemed handy I guess....but no more than £35 for 2 hrs. In my opinion any CD charging £75 and more is well on the make, but as I said earlier, entitled to earn a crust I guess!

I am suspicious of the CD workshops who list big names but state that if that person is not able to make the evening, someone else equally good will take the class........Hmmmm, I'd rather have my money back until that person "can" run the class.

My view is: if 10 actors pooled £35 each....that's £350 and there are plenty of very experienced actors with excellent TV credits who would be very pleased to earn that for 2-3 hrs of their time.

• 13 years ago
• 27

I remember this thread from the first time around, but I see it's been bumped back up again!

For what it's worth, I agree with Mark to a fair extent, but I also think that actors tend to erase the distinction between different types of 'workshopping', and that can lead to money being squandered on the wrong resources.

It is always worth asking yourself *why* a casting director is likely to be holding a 'workshop' session. Naturally, in a fair few cases, it is because that casting director needs to earn themselves, and they are hoping to make some relatively easy money from offering basic advice to actors who are prepared to pay for the privilege. A few casting directors are genuinely cocksure enough to assume that being regaled with their words of wisdom is worth the price of entry alone, and so on. But, by far the majority, I think, are neither especially mercenary nor especially arrogant (particularly the top casting directors) - the main reason they actually hold workshops is because they grow increasingly frustrated with the inability of many actors to sell themselves properly, which makes their jobs tougher and their lives more tedious. By ensuring that more and more actors are grounded in the necessities of what they want and expect from applicants, they are easing the pressure on their own fraught lives as casting directors, and helping actors in the process. The fact that, as Mark says, most reputable actors of a few years experience who have trained at a decent drama school should know all these details anyway doesn't really enter into the equation, because the workshops are really aimed at those who are least well grounded in industry basics, and who are (sad to say) ever more prevalent within the industry as a whole. Back in the days of rep training, and the closed shop union (where one had to perform in many hours worth of professional work before the Equity card would even be granted), business professionalism was something that was taken as read within the industry, and I doubt there were ever very many seminars or workshops held with casting directors - there was no need for them, no niche into which they could fit and, indeed, casting directors (who were also far fewer in number) would perhaps have felt that advising actors on their own professionalism was something of an insult to the actors' dignity and integrity. But the whole method of entry, and expectation of awareness within the industry, has changed since those days, and the casting directors are responding accordingly.

In a related vein, I remember talking to my own audition coach, Simon Dunmore, about whether or not he felt that learning uncommon Shakespeare speeches (which he specialises in teaching) was a guaranteed method for getting casters to take more notice of you. He eventually conceded that he couldn't say for certain, but the main reason he advocated actors learning unfamiliar speeches was that he personally, as a director, became bored to tears having to hear the same speeches delivered time and again. I suspect something similar is true for most casting directors: is there anything more tedious than having to sift through another badly laid out CV, to have to discard yet more unwanted DVD's that you haven't solicited, to have to delete all the unwanted emails in your inbox that have been sent to your personal account etc. - when you could be making significant phonecalls, reading scripts, going and seeing highly rated shows etc. So, a good option for a casting director will always be to try and educate as many actors as possible in the protocols they would like to see them adhere to, if they can afford the time to offer the advice (and get paid for offering it, into the bargain). And that is the primary motivation for 98% of all casting director workshops.

While I also think many casting directors are happy enough to take on CV's and details at the end of any given session (they can never know when something might come in handy, after all), the ones who are actually interested in casting *directly* from a workshop session can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And its no surprise, really. Again, put yourself in the position of the casting director. You are required to come up with specific suggestions in relation to very detailed briefs and breakdowns given for any set of parts. These suggestions must be intelligently made, accurate for the parts required, offering both straightforward choices and the occasional unusual possibility. Your own job will be on the line if you fail to deliver actors of personality, talent and suitability to the company - you may not be reemployed by a given company/director if you make the wrong choices. You need to know that the actors you are putting forward can be trusted - to get to the audition on time, to deliver in the screen test/audition, and to generally impress. You may have already been asked by the director etc. to try and track down some highly specific choices for the parts, and that, whether you think it inhibits your personal casting wishes or not, is what you are being paid for. Are you likely to want to throw the offer of a part in the general direction of an actor you have met for three quarters of an hour in a group workshop session? It's not impossible, I suppose, but I think it's really pretty unlikely. Most casting directors naturally cast from a pool of actors they already know the work of - and, thankfully for most of us, they also farm out some parts to general audition and, if you can win the audition, then you become known to them, and considered for further work. I think any actor who goes to a casting workshop under the illusion that this will somehow get them pencilled in as a 'go-to' actor by a casting director is badly mistaken. To go in the hope of getting useful feedback or advice is a different issue - although, even then, many workshops are a disappointment because the casting director does not consider it their job to offer mentoring as such.

Which brings me back to the main point. I wholeheartedly agree that an actor should never rest on his/her laurels and that keeping 'tools' honed is vital in the profession. But I am also a great believer in the idea that, if you want specific mentoring in acting, performance, delivery, audition etc., then your best option is to seek out someone whose primary service is just that - mentoring/tutoring - either in one to ones or in true workshop situations. While I agree with Mark that, if you have been through decent drama training, you gain all the basics, it can still be the case that your skills need revisiting and revitalising from time to time. Good mentors may cost money, and not every actor would accept that a mentor is strictly necessary, but a decent mentor will always reward you as an actor and, moreover, I think you will never begrudge the money you spend on them, because they will address themselves to personal concerns, as opposed to general ones. When Simon Dunmore tutored me on audition technique, it was because I sought out his services specifically, and, I have to credit him with giving me the confidence and certainty to help win me a place at drama school. More recently, I have undertaken one to one classes with other mentors who have, for example, helped me immeasurably with my actual screen audition technique (one very simple method employed was to record my audition on camera, and then simply spend time playing it back to me, so that I could see exactly how I was coming across, and where certain errors had crept into the performance. I must emphasise that 'taking time' is the key here - I could only find this method useful and eye opening by virtue of the fact that 45 minutes or so was simply devoted to shooting the material, playing it back, and discussing it personally with me, rather than seeing the majority of the session devoted to introductory chat, or recording other peoples' performances, whilst relegating the analysis to a final perfunctory set of comments, which is what I would expect from a 'general' workshop of similar intentions. It is also worth noting that I can, and have, learnt far more about my performance tendencies from personal sessions that lasted only an hour, but were extremely focused, as opposed to general workshops that lasted two and a half, but were padded with 'filler' material).

I also believe that a lot of the best US actors (who swear by continued training, rather than taking the attitude that it is unnecessary) don't advocate spending endless money on passing workshops (which can sometimes be assumed), but, rather, on finding groups or mentors who will continually help the individual actor to grow over many years. The real issue is that mentors are actually quite hard to find and tend not to actually advertise widely - all the best that I have worked with/know of, I have come across by chance, or been recommended to, or have learnt of through word of mouth. Whereas, passing casting director workshops seem to be advertised everywhere. That may be one reason why less actors take up this option than I'd expect.

• 13 years ago
• 28

I'll be succinct.... in my humble opinion CD workshops are a waste of your time and money.

I don't use CD's to cast and NEVER will!

http://www.youtube.com/user/GUYPRESS

• 13 years ago
• 29

i think all workshops are fun and you take away some advice from all of them i dont think ppl go to suck up to casting directors i think they go to tune there performance its like trying a joke out at the appolo live how you gonna know if your timings right if you dont get clapped thats what i get from workshops feedback also i enjoy performing so i dont get what all this fuss is about anyone whose in the biz gives a workshop thats great theres not enough workshops around man you lot should be happy so many fake drama schools promising jobs in usa ppl getting ripped off big time so if you get a chance to go to a real workshop go before someone takes your place there fun micky churchill

• 13 years ago
• 30

I dub thee "Mickey No Grammar"

:-)

• 13 years ago
• 31

Hey chill man. I'm not trying to be a teacher. Ive been in this biz since I was 6 and I still feel sad that ppl can be so nasty. I may be dyslexic but I got emotions just like you. I dont name call. And while were at it I know a whole heap of actors and directors who are dyslexic. Maybe you could slag us all off. All I was saying is that workshops tune your talent. If anyone credible gives workshops they are always worth doing. But you got to look at whos giving them.

• 13 years ago
• 32

Sorry Mickey! Genuinely was only joking. I'm having a bit of a bad patch with the written word,keep getting the tone wrong! If I have offended I sincerely apologise.

• 13 years ago
• 33

Hi Mickey,

I really don't think Simon was taking the piss out of dyslexia at all merely your posting with no speech marks. I don't think Simons a gratuitously nasty guy at all. Dyslexia isn't about apostrophes or capitals as you well know!!
However, I will take issue with your viewpoint on CD workshops in the UK, as I believe it's a bit naive and especially so in the current climate. Having been in the business 24 yrs and working both sides of camera I have yet to see or hear of anyone attaining a casting or furthering their careers, through this type of workshops.

I no longer use CD's and manage very well without them!

By all means attend these workshops, but don't expect anything from them that you didn't already know and don't expect a financial return off them!

Best to all ;-)

• 13 years ago
• 34

Hi Mickey - I have to admit I'm with Guy on this one. The reality of most CD workshops is that they are a money-making exercise with a vague and tantalising inference that you might be "discovered" and thrust int the limelight. I (mistakenly) attended one "workshop", learnt nothing, was told I couldn't act (by a male CD who was definitely more interested in younger female actresses) and parted from some hard-earned cash. Lesson learnt - thicken up your skin, don't waste your money and go out there and sell yourself. Hone your skills in auditions (experience is a great teacher) and continue to believe in yourself. And ALWAYS maintain a sense of humour - it gets you a long way in this game! :) All the best :)

• 13 years ago
• 35

Agree with others in that they are without a doubt extra money earners for CD's.

However, keep in mind that you will be able to talk with a CD about things you ordinarily wouldn't get a chance to. You will be 'seen' and it's never a bad thing to be fresh in the mind of a CD. You also should get feedback from somebody who knows what they are talking about. Then there is networking and measuring yourself against other actors.

With that lot in mind they can be a bonus, but don't expect to be picked for a major role because you attended.

At the end of the day we all need to raise our profiles, so while it is true they are money making schemes it would be wrong to say they are of no value to you. And I'm sure that we have all spent more money on acting relating stuff that does us no good whatsoever. In my view this isn't the case with these. Just have realistic expectations. They will only do you harm if you are crap!

• 13 years ago
• 36

If I HAD been able to talk to the CD and ask him why he came to the conclusion he did - fine! But he was so quick out the door at the end that no one got anywhere near him! I think it was actually quite a negative experience for several actors there. I encourage feedback from people I think have a good perspective but a sweeping generalisation from someone who gave me, what, two minutes on camera with some fairly confusing directions and then legged it off home seems like a poor way to spend your money and an evening! Luckily I've had enough positive feedback (and work!) since to chalk it all up to experience, but it could have made a pretty dramatic impression on someone less bloody-minded about things than I am! :)

• 13 years ago
• 37

PS or the CD is crap! So do some research from fellow actors who have attended a workshop with that particular CD.

• 13 years ago
• 38

Yep - that was my first mistake!! You're so right! Doh! I'm sure there are some good ones out there, I've heard the Annelie Powell ones are very useful. :)

• 13 years ago
• 39

Mickey,

I know Simon well.. hes just like that as person, but its not his fault hes a git. :P

(love ya Simon xx)

• 13 years ago
• 40