What value is Equity

John Doull
Actor, Entertainer

Hi all....As well as an Actor, I am a director, writer and run a Theatre company...What I am frequently finding is that Actors are no longer bothering becoming members of Equity. When I mention that Equity membership gives the holder personal liability insurance, the reply is often, "well, if I get a job, the company I am with will have Insurance. So, what I am asking is, as there is no longer a closed shop union system in this country, what purpose does Equity serve? As a long standing member I am asking the question - Do we need Equity?
I welcome your comments.


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I guessed you were Forbes but me being me, in serious mode these days. Think I need to hit YouTube and watch Monty again and take my made off things :-)


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Tony Burden
Actor

As a relative newcomer to the business I actually hold profesional affiliations and unions in high regard.
I am actively working towards gaining my membership as I see it as a necessity. Maybe naively I believe that it signals my serious intent to commit to the business in a professional and hard working manner.
I have been and am a union member in other areas of my life and have seen the vast benefits and to be fair some restrictions that membership can also bring.
Closed shops are a thing of the distant past and I have also seen the negative impacts of such set ups.
But on the whole a well organised and well intentioned union with teeth can and will do its members good.
Also remember that when somebody asks what has the union ever done for us? Please point out that they and the membership ARE the union. Top tables are the appointed representatives who can only gain knowledge of the members desires through feedback at meetings.

Solidarity Brothers and Sisters


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John Doull
Actor, Entertainer

Well said Mark, I think there are two arguments that need airing, I think it is valid as a body but may have 'lost its way' in the 21st Century, I like you, do not attend meetings on a regular basis and so am partly to blame but, like all pro's, I am trying to make a living and evening meetings often clash with shows and the like. That said, I have no real excuse.


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Dan Gregory
Actor

@Daniel @Forbes
SPQR = sono pazzi questi romani (Asterix)
"These Romans are crazy!"


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@Dan I think we all needed that. Certainly put a smile on my face. Those Romans were indeed crazy but there was a method to their madness.


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@Tony Well said. Unlike yourself I have never been part of a trade union prior to joining Equity but have worked in many small to large organisations and have experienced first hand what happens when there is no union representation so fully appreciate being a member of Equity. Every organisation has to adapt to times but from reading the Equity Journal that is just what the Union is doing.

Still I think there is strength in numbers. Just look at how powerful the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) is in The States, given the anti-union history that Country has.


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Dan Gregory
Actor

The problem began here under Thatcher who took on Equity with the help of several of her high profile friends who were Equity members. Despite battling all the way to the High Court we lost. Lord Denning made what he thought was a sensible compromise decision

******
[35] In British Actors' Equity Association v Goring [1977] ICR 393, Lord Denning
MR in the English Court of Appeal stated:
So when it comes to construing the rules, it seems to me that they should
be construed, not literally according to the very letter, but according to the
spirit, the purpose, the intendment, which lies behind them, so as to ensure -
especially in a matter affecting the constitution - that they should be
interpreted fairly, having regard to the many interests which its
constitutional code is designed to serve. ... it seems to me that the courts,
when called upon to construe the rules, must do all they can to construe
them reasonably, fairly, broadly and liberally in the interests of all
concerned in the association.
[36] Roskill LJ at pp401-402 of the same case discussed the evolution of
associations and how their rules may not cover every eventuality, meaning that it
was important not to interpret them too legalistically.
[37] The Goring case was further considered by the House of Lords on appeal in
British Actors' Equity Association v Goring [1978] ICR 791. Viscount Dilhorne
held at pp794-795:
While it cannot be said that the rules are a fine example of legal
drafting, I do not think that, because they are the rules of a union, different
canons of construction should be applied to them than are applied to any
written documents. Our task is to construe them so as to give them a
reasonable interpretation which accords with what in our opinion must have
been intended.
*****
I found this on a NZ site where it was an example of poor judgement. But it was the beginning of the end for UK Unions having any real power. Something the USA has not even dared to attempt.


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@Dan How strange you should find that information on a NZ website as an example of bad judgement because that is exactly what it was and not just in legal terms either. It is interesting to note that most the ills that affect the media industries stem from a plethora of bad laws and equally bad decisions made during the Thatcher years, whether it be the forty percent stranglehold Robert Murdoch held over the UK Media, the systematic destruction of ITV, the list goes on. As you say those kind of decisions were not even attempted anywhere else. Those high profile Equity members and the political classes have much to answer for.


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Lee Ravitz
Actor

Just to add to what I was commenting on earlier (it was late, and I was tired) - the union restructuring...

I think this development is an especially interesting - and (potentially) far reaching - one. As I understand things (having sat on an Equity Committee for the past year or so), Equity initially decided that, during this period of economic retrenchment, the current system of Equity Committee representation (whereby specialist committees have multiplied over the years in order to defend special interest areas and influence Council policy for the benefit of the membership) was felt to have become cumbersome, unwieldy and costly to maintain. Whether the latter point is valid is an open question (although it was Equity's initial justification for seeking to reform internal structure) - what *is* certain is that many of these Committees were/are not serving member interests especially effectively. Equity has also implemented (to a degree) a reformation of the way in which the Council is constituted - mainly because it was held that the Council too is an unwieldy body with too many seats on it being held as sinecures (the number of seats has lessened, and under new rules, more are allocated for specific interest groupings, I believe).

What surprised me, in honesty, when I discussed it with my colleagues who sit on my own Committee (soon to be disbanded - Independent Theatre Arts - which was for some months under the Chairmanship of Andrew Macbean) - is the fact that ITAC was actually one of the few committees I could ever have been elected to, because the vast majority of committees are specific interest only, and actors cannot be elected to them. This struck me as somewhat revelatory at the time: certainly, the committees must have originated in order to support the interests of groups under-represented within what primarily began as an actor's union - directors, choreographers, fight directors and the like - but now it appeared to me as if the boot was on the other foot: a union in existence where, notwithstanding the massive difficulties most members of our profession are having to cope with daily, allowed for virtually no actor led representation at specialist committee level which might influence policy - suggesting only that actors would have to make do with deciding policy at branch meetings.

What seems important about the new restructuring rules is that committees are being 'merged' into much broader based representations: Stage, Screen etc. This may raise other issues: I am not sure whether there is still some dispute over how many seats may be allocated on any given committee to members of our particular profession, for instance. A putative 'Stage' Committee, for instance, might have seats for directors, choreographers, technical stage crew, and so on as well as actors, but at least there *will* be seats for actors! There is also, of course, an issue that surrounds which actors get elected to said seats, and whether or not they will necessarily agree on priorities; from the perspective of most jobbing actors, for instance, it could be maintained that West End stalwarts will find it hard to respond to the issues that we may wish to see contested - low rates of pay, profit share and so on. Equity maintain that it will be these kinds of issues that make future elections more fiercely contested than they have been in the recent past: this is something the union welcomes, not least because it may do something to engage the membership more dramatically. We will have to see.

But all of these moves do seem to indicate that something is changing as regards Equity's response to the needs of the current industry. That there will be a Screen Committee, for instance, with a specific remit to debate and set policy relevant to the union's relationship with film schools, commercial agencies, television production companies, and Internet based providers seems remarkable, given that I don't think the union has ever had such a specifically dedicated body of this type in place before. Is it all too little, too late? A superficial changing of the guard? Or does it promise a brave new approach to the way the union actually defends actor rights in the 21st century? I don't know, and nor, before the event, does anyone else. What I do think is true is that we shouldn't be complacent about the coming changes: when these restructured forms begin to emerge (which will be in the next year or two), it will be up to us to try and ensure that something *will* alter for the better in our relationship to the union, because this is the best opportunity we have had in years to try and alter the way Equity fundamentally serves its purpose.

Watch this space!


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@ Lee - Thank you for a very informative response. I will be watching the space to see what develops. Surprised actors are under represented on certain committees. Hoping to see developments with regards to the film schools, unpaid work, and low pay rates many of us have to endure. Not to mention a better deal for all.


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Notwithstanding Lee's information, I find Daniel's comparison of the Roman Empire and Equity very apt.

They were both once powerful organizations in a bygone era.

The word "Equity" and the phrase "since the end of the closed shop" seem to be eternally synonymous.

The closed shop union was ended 25 YEARS AGO!

It was the same for all unions here and indeed across a lot of Europe.

Lee asks a question "Is it all too little, too late? A superficial changing of the guard?"

No it's not too late; it has been 25 years in the coming.

One piece of progression we can all facilitate is that the word "Equity" and the phrase "since the end of the closed shop", are never seen in the same sentence again.


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@David - I agree. It has been long overdue.


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Private User
This profile is private

Sorry David, my mistake. I said I missed the closed shop and used the term in error. I think Equity's joining requirements should be more stringent as Equity membership would then be more of a sign of quality. I don't want to return to a time when only those in the union could be considered for a job.


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You certainly have nothing to apologize to me about, Tracy.

I think you are right about the joining requirements of Equity, which also leads to far bigger questions about the industry as a whole.

I believe it is not only a trick they have missed, but also a white elephant that has sat in the room for 25 years.


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I got my Equity Card in 2004 after working nearly a year as an SA (Extra if you will). I mentioned earlier what the joining requirements were in years past, prior to my joining but having got my Equity Card, I have dedicated my working life since then in developing an acting career, even while doing other work outside of the profession in order to make a living.

I don't think there is or should be any question about quality in having an Equity Card but as you said a white elephant has been sitting in the room for the past twenty-five years but do feel it has finally woken up and not before time.


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Dan Gregory
Actor

@david. VK I have no problems with a post-entry closed shop as long as entry is not as hard as it was almost 40 years ago when I joined. The USA operates closed shops in most Unions still and despite huge joining fees they are still powerful.


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Lee Ravitz
Actor

It's an interesting sociological issue - the question of the value of the union membership in relationship to the ease of entry. With the removal of the closed shop, membership automatically becomes unrestricted, but this simultaneously means that the holding of membership is less meaningful, because it's less exclusive and beneficial. Consequently, there will, in the long term, be a drop off in interest in holding membership. This, in turn, reduces the power of the union because it deprives it of subscription fees that are membership generated, and used to sustain services. In turn, the union has to make the card ever more available in the hope of sustaining subscription through sheer weight of numbers. This seems to be a cyclical process that isn't reducing anytime soon.

What it may have served to have the effect of is, however, inducting many more 'grass roots' actors into the union than there once were. This seems to me important. While it is certainly true that a majority stay well beyond the remit of the union because they see it as an unnecessary drain on their money, there are almost certainly more actors in Equity now who have never gone to a drama school, are invariably working in 'fringe', have made recent transitions from being SA's to becoming full time actors, have only ever done screen based commercials work, are primarily 'skin' workers or holiday entertainers etc., than there have ever been before. This is not meant to be a condemnation, it just seems like a recognisable fact, given that the 'closed shop' tendencies of Equity -being able to demonstrate several years worth of professional level work at union rates of pay - are long since forgotten and there is, in effect, little bar to becoming a modern member of Equity save the desire to become a member of Equity.

What is important about this phenomenon, in its own terms, is surely, however, the fact that the demographic of whom Equity represents has also substantially changed. The union leadership does not appear to recognise this, and part of the sense that it is 'out of touch' is generated by a tendency to hold that large percentages of actor members are necessarily working within the West End, on national tours, BBC broadcasts and the like when this is increasingly less likely for large sections of the membership. Equity will, in my opinion, only start to become more relevant to the concerns of the majority when it begins to recognise this fact. Who knows if it will choose to?


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@Dan - I have heard this. SAG is quite powerful despite this. Having said that, if one is working they can make a good living as the Union is powerful but then many of their blockbusters get made here or in Australia because of this.

@Lee - You make valid points. I do get the impression of an out of touch air because I seldom meet people (nice as they are at my branch meetings,) who have a similar background to myself. What I mean by this is many of them have made a comfortable living from acting but then many of them have been in the business for many years. For myself, I have only ever worked in the West End once (and never got paid for my efforts,) and as for working on BBC Drama, you have got to be kidding, I am not even on their radar nor that of casting directors. Theatre I have worked in extensively but for little if any money so again, I am not meeting fellow members who have trod that path and at times I wonder who is out of touch, me or those who have had long careers and made a comfortable living doing so? For my sins I came into the industry late in life and things were not as cosy or comfortable as they once were. I do wonder at times whether (despite my efforts,) I will ever get to work in television drama or do any high-profile professional theatre because like many other actors, I am pretty much at the mercy of those who seem to think nothing of hiring actors on the basis of no pay, be grateful approach. I have of course stopped being exploited in this way but for many others, they feel it is the only chance they have to get noticed which not really the case, which is why it is important to a member of Equity I feel.


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The power of American Unions is well documented. As are the connections with American Unions and the Mafia.

Being forced to join an organization in order to be employed, or being forced to join the same organization in order to maintain employment, results in two things.
Firstly the employee has no freedom, secondly the organization holds an ultimate power on it's members.

Now these are my thoughts only and I am not politically affiliated to any thing.

But the facts are, as far as I'm aware, that the Conservative party ended the last closed shop union, the NUS, in 1992 and the Labour party dropped the closed shop as policy in 1989.

Things change, I'm glad they do, and I look forward to it.


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Things do change but some would argue not always for the better but I do take your point on the freedom to choose.


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