This is more a question than a rant but, because it may invite some rants, I decided to post it here.
I have in a couple of months applied to 85 jobs, all related to both my academic background and to my 2 decades professional experience. Is it normal to have only gotten 2 jobs from 85 applications? Maybe it is but...
1. I have 2 decades professional experience
2. I have an online Portfolio, worked for well known brands and have several IMDB entries.
3. I hold an MA in Film by one of the only 3 UK Centers of Excellence for teaching film.
4. I have been featured in Channel 4 and ARTE Channel Documentaries.
5. I have a complete digital cinema 4K shooting/lighting/grip/sound kit.
6. I write my cover letters very carefully and have a refined CV (at least I think I do) customized for each application.
7. I speak 4 languages fluently.
8. I have a car and driving licence.
9. I have a Production Safety Passport.
10. I am based in London
Now I have been paying this website £20 a month, reply to ads as soon as they pop up. They are 90% of the times viewed. Not a single one gets at least a "thank you for applying" reply. This is starting to be truly ridiculous.
I'm not quite on the same level of experience or renown as yourself, but I do have the same sort of experience in so far as not hearing back from jobs I've applied for. They are almost always viewed, and I have never once received a 'thank you for applying' even for jobs that I went on to book.
For me, I guess, it's more of a fear of missing a job I might be suited for than a knowledge that I will book it. It's a bit of a slippery slope, especially knowing that I have in the past booked jobs through the website, and have also been cold-contacted for work from employers who have seen my profile. But have I gone months without even a single job from this website? Definitely.
I have to imagine that there are hundreds and hundreds of applicants going for the same jobs, maybe even more so for higher profile DoP or Videography jobs. But I don't know that for sure. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person on this website, sometimes not.
I have cancelled other subscriptions to job websites in the past, where I literally never found a single job, or they had an impossible profile/credits system to work with, or I had been messed around. But even with Mandy taking over Film and TV Pro, I've always held the subscription, for almost five years now. At this point, I feel like it would be a detriment to leave now, even though I only book jobs through the website every so often.
I've only recently joined Mandy to boost my experience but... I've sent out 10 applications; and look I totally get there's people out there with more experience that's not the point, but - I've not had one reply "thanking me" for my application. Is that the norm also?
Seems incredibly bad manners and unprofessional. Shouldn't a job poster HAVE to at least send a default email acknowledging the application as part of being given the right to post.
Or at least state that in their post, "due to the sheer volume of applications we may receive, we may not be able to get back to you"
Need a bit of basic training most of these businesses it seems..
Hi Miguel.
I’ve not been on here very long so it’s maybe too early to comment, but I’ve so far had a similar experience. I’ve got even more experience in the industry than you, I write nice letters in response to adverts, and so far I’ve not had a single reply.
I would have to agree with a lot noted here and say I have a similar experience with the site. Something I've noticed is the number of job posts I see behind the pay wall here on Mandy that exist on other sites with no pay wall copy and pasted I think if your going to charge people to see paid jobs on the site there needs to be a level of exclusivity especially if the jobs market is as saturated as it clearly is.
But saying that I still have yet to warrant my subscription cost to the site by work returned.
Same here. I've been on here for a few years and only had 2 solid jobs in that time. I have a long list of applications from which I've heard sod all. I've always put it down to being based up north and not in London. There is talent outside of London you know.
To be honest the price doesn't justify the amount of paying jobs advertised on the Website. If like myself you are on here as a scriptwriter then you are likely to see 1 to 2 jobs a month. That works out at ten pound every time you fill out an application. The price shouldn't be the same as they charge for Actors as on the Acting site they have a lot more jobs.
Film and tv pro/Mandy have been in the game a long time yet they still offer the lower end jobs and unpaid work.
If I have been running a casting/jobs website as long as these guys have I would have made much better contacts by now.
Keep on applying is my advice! I apply for jobs based in London and I can not tell you the amount of competition out there!
Here is an example, I was searching for a DOP for a 2 day job and the within about 1 hour of putting up the AD I had received not less then 50 applicants... I had to take the post down already and of course within those 50 people their was about 45 extremely strong candidates...
I hope that answers your question!
For what it's worth, Shooting People doesn't appear to be any better. 1 job since signing up in October, and 1 "thanks for applying" message out of lots of jobs applied for.
My advice is. Do not pay for Mandy if it's you don't find any jobs. So far, I've been in London for 1 month and a half and I found a paid job and 2 unpaid shootings. In the adverts sometimes you can find the name of the company. So I google it and wrote them thru their website, saying that I saw their stuff, I identified myself with the work they do, I'm energetic and competent, and available xxxx dates. I do the same in My First Job in Film.
However, London is very competitive, and outside of the city, there are no jobs.
--Sometimes I change my name from Catarina to Catherine and I receive more replies.
--Sometimes I just get opportunities because I'm very fast in replying, and they don't even look at my CV.
--Sometimes I get the jobs because I take out stuff from my 1 page CV. So employers don't get intimidated for the amount of knowledge/experience we may have. And then I get more opportunities.
--Sometimes I get the jobs because I say that I don't mind to work extra hours... etc.
It's an unfair world. Creatives only hire people they know. And non-creatives only hire if they see they can save more money by hiring you. No one is doing it for the talent, personal skills or work ethics, etc.
My second advice is. Open your own company, where you're able to co-produce with the other languages that you speak (which is your biggest advantage against the British competition). If you accomplish something on your own, you'll earn more respect and you might end up in a much better place as well.
Yeah, I have the same experience. Two years involvement on this site in one way or another and over perhaps 200 application (Feels like s stretch but it feels that way) 1 job was all I got. I only hang about now for the waste of it. As if to say "Well, I am at least trying everything available to me." Not only that, since I have moved to London I have seen that 90% of producers and people with money now pay less than minimum wage due to the high competition. I mean sure, why pay 100 a day when you can offer 50 or less an a person who lives at home with no need for rent and who can spend their money only on equipment get more noticed. After 10 years in this business, I must say, I am now at zero and I think its a shame what this industry has become. A waste of time and life and people still love to exploit others and get rich off of desperate talent.
Thank you all for your replies. You all had good points. Catarina pointed out some very pertinent and useful tips and Umberto had the courage to bring up sensitive matters, although I'd like to believe that country of origin and age, are rare reasons not to hire anyone. Trust me, I'm preparing a feature film I'll be directing this year and, I'm looking mostly for very experienced people. I'm not trying to go on a date, I'm trying to make a good film with an experienced crew. And I have no problems finding dates so, I'm certainly not here for that. ;)
Ever since I wrote that initial post I canceled my membership and have been getting jobs by networking and word of mouth, which is how the Industry really works. I may try signing up again from time to time, to see if it improves... But not for the moment.
This doesn't come as a massive surprise to me. I do get the feeling when speaking to other people that this is almost the norm these days. Not just on websites like this but in the any job market. Many years back I was unemployed and just looking for something to tide me over. I applied for a whole bunch of jobs and hardly ever heard back, eventually got one interview. I have a whole list of qualifications and educated to degree standard but it is definitely a numbers game out there. So much competition. If one job has over 100+ applicants (which I imagine happens all the time) then it must be difficult for the employer to narrow it down and inevitably some people who might be best for the job somehow slip through the net sometimes.
It is not surprising. I run a small media business and have used mandy.com several times to advertise reasonably well paid jobs. I often receive 50+ applications for crewing roles, many highly experienced, I can only chose 1. It is the level of competition causing this issue. Networking is a better way but don't lose heart, try to make your application highly targeted, meeting job specification accurately not a cut and paste job. I don't like sifting through irrelevant information. Check what the company has done, show you have done some research. All the best for the future.
Thank you for your input, Sati! Actually, I know where you're coming from because I work both as a sole trader, selling services as DoP, Camera Operator and Director, but I have also been run a small film/media business since 2005. I know how hard it has become for both sides.
I hate to speak this way but... The opportunities presented by the democratization of digital technologies have introduced a lower bar to entry, yes!.. Apparently perfect but, this means more players; more players means a crowded field; a crowded field means too much competition, and quite frankly, more crap.
There has never been so much content to watch but precisely because of that... It has never been so difficult to find good content or to get funds to make it. It's a hard time for investors and creators alike. Oh well... May we live in interesting times.
From what I gather the gatekeepers prefer to see you come through the ranks no matter your experience. Unless you get lucky shooting some big successful socio-political narrative on a budget that goes viral. I have done a lot of research during lockdown and though I have loads of experience behind a camera in the events world it seems like I have to start as an uncredited camera trainee or runner and work my way up. The thing is that even trainees or just one rank up are on better day rates than most of what you see on mandy.
It may seem harsh but the degrees don't really help up in this industry too much. I have degrees and taught at that level and now I realise that all the theory is talked but they/we hardly ever tell you about decent pathways in or rates.
I only just learned that a diary service may be worth a go as well as a brief stint at a production house. Apart from that, it is networking and making sure your showreel is irresistible. Networking is pretty difficult right now but definitely I will be going after it whatever it takes.
I'm glad I took the time to read through the comments on this post. I've been paying my dues to Mandy now for three months, and with only a fraction of the experience of a lot of you guys, I think it's safe to say this site isn't going to yield any results for me. I'll stick around to view older posts from time to time, but my subscription is over.
I've mentioned this previously to other people I've chatted to before - it's not just the site but the people hiring. Insultingly low pay because "they don't have a very big budget".
There's a few people/ companies on here who repeatedly churn out absolute tosh films (2/10 IMDB type) and demand what I'd typical charge £5k for, for free or stupidly low pay that wouldn't even equate to half the hourly national minimum wage.
I've paid for another month recently and yet again got a single reply. Didn't end up doing it because the guy wasn't paying much and his video workflow couldn't accommodate someone using the industry standard audio software.
#Amateurs.
3 years ago
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