Drama school is pointless.... (Oh - yes - it - is!)

An artist doesn't need to go to art school to draw a beautiful painting, obviously. It goes without saying that this fact does not make art school pointless, surely.

You say "drama school is pointless" but also "I'm not saying drama school is a bad idea". Surely you agree it is infact a bad idea to spend 3 years on something "pointless"?

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I don't want to hurt the wounded even more!

Seriously, it's pointless in terms of it providing 'technique'. That is inherent, and all drama schools have done is tried to backward engineer what naturally great actors have done all alone.

Drama school does have some point, of course. So I'll renounce pointless (that was to spark debate anyway). It is a good test of committment, and a chance to make contacts, possibly.

Still, time is the most precious and finite resource on earth, and anything that eats that up without being 100% justified, needs debating.

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Not being funny, but I'd love to see a completely untrained actor perform in a 1500 seat theatre for a year, or do a three-month open-air Shakespeare tour, without the use of mics, and have every person hear every word they say, and not lose their voice doing it...

I too didn't go to drama school. However, I did an adequate Performing Arts Degree, continued to improve my technique doing professional theatre work and TIE, and intend to continue to train via workshops and possibly some short courses at some drama schools (dum dum DUM!)

You are right that drama school can't teach talent, but it does teach technique, something that you sorely need to avoid damaging your voice and body and have a lasting career.

Oh, and whilst I don't regret doing the course I did, I did it because I got rejected from the drama schools I applied for. For a new actor entering the industry, who can afford it, drama school remains the best option.

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Can I just ask, Paul, why you have a "2003 Postagraduate acting degree" credit from Central on your CV. That certainly sounds like 'training' to me, or at least might do to a potential employer on a first look. Did you actually do such a course (there are variouscMA's at Central, some of which are purely performative, few of which are accredited by the NCDT) and if not... why is it on your CV?

Yours intrigued,

Chris

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Hi Chris,

You're correct, it was on there. Not sure how but it should be removed by now.

Incidentally, I don't think that many mainstream acting employers use this site, and if they do, it's mainly a glance at picture then showreel affair, followed by audition.

Just to make it clear, I will not let Central take any credit for my future Oscar.

:)

Cheers,

Paul

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what i would like to know is .... where has splatcat gone ?? .... what a very lucid post young man- and with minimal sarcasm ....... !!!! ;O)

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I am going to be the first to stick my head out and agree with Paul.

I do not think drama school is AT ALL essential in order to be a successful actor. And the whole "would you let an unqualified Dr operate on you?" argument is pointless because we are dealing with a highly creative and subjective profession that is not as black and white as medicine. As actors we don't have to work towards chartered status and we don't have an accrediting body like the British Medical Association or the British Psychological Society. Why? Because acting is subjective so by its very nature success and failure are harder to demonstrate/measure.

People are getting upset because it has been suggested that their degrees are worthless…
I'd be upset if people said my degree was worthless too, I mean how the **** would they know? I am sure many of you had a great time, learnt a lot, made friends and contacts but let us put the personal experience aside for a second. Ask yourself what is the VALUE of your degree as perceived BY EMPLOYERS rather than how much you enjoyed doing it.
That is essentially the crux of the issue.

If you wanted to do a degree because you like drama then cool. If you wanted to do it because you want a career as an actor then presumably you thought doing it would give you an advantage over people who didn't have one… This is where I part company with most of you and join Paul in the corner. The dark and lonely corner…Before I argue my case I would like to point out I do not see myself as super successful but hope I will be someday.

Will agents or CDs value someone WITH a degree over and above someone WITHOUT one? Yes if that is all that separates the two candidates. Can you be certain that the graduate is a better actor BECAUSE they went to drama school? No way. Why? Because attending drama school does not MAKE you talented. That is why people hold auditions.

You could then argue people with a drama degree can get more experience because they are more likely to be SEEN for an audition than someone without. Or perhaps they are more likely to get a better agent. Again this argument goes out of the window when you acknowledge that the first thing employers see is usually your headshot. Get past that stage and they might look at your resume… by that time they have probably made a decision about your suitability but where you trained might be a deciding factor. And I would imagine it would need to be one of the reputable drama schools if it is to hold any weight. It is possible to build a very strong resume without having been to drama school. Many people who have been to drama schools cannot build a strong resume.

There comes a point when talent, experience and track record become more important than qualifications and how you GOT that talent and experience. And of course the whole "it's not what you know but who you know" adage can play a part too. So far I see nothing here that cannot be attained without going to drama school just like many business people achieve success without having any formal qualifications (Richard Branson, Alan Sugar etc.). There are many different paths you can take to get to the same destination and many confounding variables playing a part (personality, intelligence, intuition, socio economic background, core beliefs and values,... the list is endless)

The final factor that has made me less inclined to do a drama degree is the devaluing of degrees in general. Previously a university degree was only accessible to the top 10% of the population…now the government want 50% or more of us to have a degree!!!
This must mean that universities are becoming less selective about who they take than they used to be especially as there are more places and institutions to study at. Universities are no longer there to foster the best and brightest and contribute to society, now they exist mainly for profit and research grants. Sadly we are seeing eager students coming out with degrees but unable to find work. Whilst they were studying for 3 years the people that didn't were gaining first hand experience, learning on the job, building up contacts, learning the tricks of the trade…even though they probably had to start at the bottom of the ladder.


So to summarize,

1) I believe there is nothing that drama school can provide you with that isn't mostly innate or cannot be learnt/achieved some other way. This does not make it worthless though, it just depends on what you wanted to do the degree for.

2)If you are going to drama school because you enjoy drama/acting then have a great time. If you want your degree so you can become a successful actor when you graduate make sure you a) have talent and b) go to a really good drama school otherwise save your money and don't bother.

3) Employers are not going to give you a part just because you went to drama school but they may give an actor a part solely on the basis of their resume… sometimes without even auditioning them!

4)A drama degree might help get you an audition but your look and resume were probably more important factors. The drama degree may have swung it in your favour but then so could the fact you practice Tai Chi, have a CRB check or went to school with the casting director.

5)Once at an audition it is a level playing field in terms of background. Nobody cares who is from RADA and who just did a drama GCSE. You just need to show you can portray the character.

6) In creative professions like art, dance, music and drama and even the more scientific ones such as photography, sport or computing…If you have the talent how or where you learnt to do it becomes irrelevant. If you can show you have demonstrated that talent consistently and often, even better.

7)Talent, ambition, hard work and a bit of luck seem to be the deciding factors and are necessary for success whichever route you go down in pretty much every profession in the world!

8) If you want to be a successful actor, focus on some of the other variables that are important precursors of success because I can think of about a 50 that are more important than going to drama school.

*end of long post*

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-- removed by CCP admin --

This comment does not reflect the welcoming community CCP is keen to promote.

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It may be a long post but every word was worthwhile reading Jenna, and I agree with everyone of them!

It's nice to see someone in the dark and lonely corner along with Paul who put their case in an intelligent and non-egoistic manner with absolutely no intention of winding people up to generate response.

Respect!

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Having not seen your I suggest you go out and get some material to actually create one! You're an idiot Nathan and I ain't playing your game any longer...I have better things to do with my time!

Bejewelled Blitz anyone?

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Thanks Forbes and I am sure you will find a way to open those doors with or without a degree. Hell I think you could probably just kick them down...

And Splat dear, you will always be my number one a***ole ;) No one can ever take your place. NEVER!

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Forbes KB is right: Jenna's long post was worth every word.

I've written for some very well known publications, and rarely have I seen someone reel off a response as clear as that.

If Jenna lived in the world of George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty - Four", she'd be getting a knock on the door right now from the thought police.

And that, well, it's probably the highest compliment of them all.

I bow to her irrefutable logic.

Paul Khanna

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Jenna, you show all the qualities of what is commonly referred to as "an old soul", in that, you show a maturity that is way beyond your chronological age ( unless you are actually 60). Your repost was excellent.

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Well, going to drama school clearly isn't pointless: if you tracked the biographies of each name that appears in the listings section of the Radio Times, or of the curent members of the National Theatre or the RSC, then I suspect the overwhelming nmajority went to drama school (or, for that matter, stage school). This is NOT to say that they are better actors because of it.

But the really interesting question is why, broadly speaking, there exists an unspoken division on this site, that barely gets discussed on the forum, but which is always bubbling underneath these: screen versus stage.

Why is that(BROADLY speaking) the drama schoolies (like me) are predominantly theatre, and the antis are predominantly screen?

(By the way: my own drama school training for the camera was ropey in the extreme. Have I answered my own question?)

Hx

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What you seem to be forgetting Paul, is that this business lives in a very small world where everyone knows everyone else, how do you know that your Harry Potter people haven't seen what your writing on here before you have even started filming? Please don't come on here after getting a job, showing off with comments such as, and I quote, "future Oscar" etc...

It is not appropriate as lots of people on here work extremely hard to try to get somewhere in this business, and do not appreciate you making comments regarding their hard work in drama school or anywhere else they might have gone. I, like others on here, are looking forward to seeing what you do after Harry Potter, it will be interesting.

This site is not for showing off, it is for helping people and giving one another support. Which I don't think you are doing at all with all your posts.

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That's a great point Hugh.

There is some divide between the screen and stage specialists.

A portion of my original post deserves to be struck out, in terms of theatrical acting preparation. Having a powerful, projectable voice and great memory are things that can be worked on, i.e.: 'trained'. In that respect, drama school certainly has some point.

I personally have a terrible memory and mumbling voice, things that wouldn't exactly mark me out for a career on stage. Thankfully, there is the screen, a place where mumbling can be heard, and huge swathes of dialogue get spoon fed in lovely baby sized chunks.

I don't see film as higher than TV or stage, or vice versa. Many people do rank one higher than the other, and that's silly. Interestingly, it's rarely the screen actors who regard themselves as the top of the pecking order, but more often stars of stage who make snide remarks about 'movie stars'. Lowest of the low, TV actors seem to get the bad rap from everyone! Again, that's not fair. In fact, ironically, in terms of total hours of influence, it's TV that wins again and again.

So, why do some actors believe in this creative apartheid system? I suspect it's down to everyone protecting 'their' corner of the business.

If you ever find yourself doing that, it's time to take a step back and remember what the public universally asks: are we being entertained?

If you manage that, you're as good as anyone.

PK

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Damian,

If you think I'm 'showing off', I'm sorry, because you've missed my intention.

I'm entirely aware this is a public forum, and I'm aware that other HP folk are on here. Is there anything wrong with sharing a story, an opinion, and a bit of inspiration to all those who choose to listen?

No.

For those who are thinking of drama school, at drama school, or have left it, fear not what I say. Your life hasn't changed from reading a post on the internet. But it might change the lives of those who appreciates my thoughts.

In terms of your interest in my career after Harry Potter, I'm flattered to have my first official fan.

In all seriousness, it worries me that you've mistaken my genuine message of hope to be something else, so much so that you're licking the lips in anticpation of my fall.

Time will tell, and you'll be wrong on both counts.

Paul Khanna

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It is obvious that your insecure as you have to try to sound funny and clever in your responses.. ie the title "Damian's Omen"??

And trust me, I am so far away from being your number 1 fan it is unreal!

I have a very good friend who does not stop filming, and in very good films and TV. He is the most normal guy and he has never changed from when I first met him almost 12 years ago now. Has never bigged himself up and never showed off. I have been trying to get somewhere in this business for ages now, and only recently have I started to get somewhere. I haven't come on here trying to preach to people or to put myself into peoples faces going look what i'm doing and your not!

Am I the only one who thinks this?

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Nope, you're definately not the only one Damian!

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Paul, I feel i must appologise. I'm sorry I'm clearly not as naturaly gifted as you as i needed some training! alright, it wasn't a 3 year degree from a top school, but i learnt a hell of a lot and despite what you seem to think, it DID make me a better actor!!! Not just on stage/film but off as well!

yes, not EVERYONE needs to go to drama school but that doesn't give you the right to get on your high horse and brag about your "natural talent"!

If, as you say, your intention with this post was to inspire those who haven't been to drama school, not to belittle those that haven't then don't call it "drama school is pointless....(oh-yes-it-is!)"!!!!!!!!!!!

Neill

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