Profesional singers/vocalists

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Does anyone out there like me do this as their main job?
I would like to hear from anyone who has had problems with agents abusing the act.
None payment of gigs,DCharging you a fee and adding VAT and then finding out the agency has done the same to the venue so in effect have doubled up thier fee, when the act get low paid. Bad publicity etc.


  • 15 years ago
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Vikki Lyons
Singer, Actor

Just starting to try to get into it.

So any tips?? As a Pro?

p.s - sorry to hear you are being screwed over!


  • 15 years ago
  • 1
Nathan Head
Actor

i don't work as a singer, but i used to work with a lot. and i know their agents used to do the very same thing.

sometimes it would work the opposite way, an agent would agree a fee more than double what the act would be willing to charge- making the act look greedy.

another thing i found was that the agents would book an act without even checking their availability. sending out the publicity material and then having to cancel when they find out the singer cant make it. but blaming the act- again making them look bad. lol


  • 15 years ago
  • 2

It does seem to be the old chesnut "It ain't what it used to be" as far as clubs go. (Not that I rememeber them in their heyday but I work with a guy that does!)
One particular agency has cancelled every single one of our gigs that they booked at the beginning of the year, but the people who run the agency (who happen to be artists themselves) get lots of work still...
In general the clubs are paying less and less and we tend to do pubs mostly. I think though, that things will settle down soon after the upheaval of the smoking ban and the pubs/clubs that are still standing will be the good ones. Their income will go up and then so will our fees... hopefully!
I'm hoping to get to a stage where I can supplement a large chunk of my income with the covers band I'm in. My only worry is that one day it'll clash with an acting job, but so far I don't seem to have that problem. Something to do with a lack of jobs, maybe...? Usually gigs can be re-arranged with a few weeks notice anyway.
At the moment, it's only pocket money but it's been great to keep my voice in shape, and in the last few months I think I've far surpassed the vocal quality I ever had at Mountview! And it's fun. Isn't ever actor a frustrated rock star underneath?!


  • 15 years ago
  • 3
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Hi Andy,
On reflection, when I first started a few years ago, I did have a lot of the problems you have described. Now I've found a few agents that I trust and know personally. I know that they trust me, also, which is important.
If anything goes wrong with any gig, which it does sometimes and I know will again, I know that the agents will be right behind me. An example of this is a few years ago, I went along to do a gig in a pub somewhere on the moores. When I arrived the lasndlord and landlady were lovely. They explained that it hadn't been very busr recently, so not to rush in with my things. I set up anyway. The landlady started to talk to me and said that if it didn't pick up, I would be able to go home. Well, this happened. It got to about 10pm and they said that i might as well go home. They offered me £30. Obviously I was amazed at this. I explained that I wanted the contracted amount. They both then started shouting at me saying that the artist last week accepted this money. I wasn't having it, I demanded the money. They gave it to me reluctantly. When I had packed all of my things back into the car, i set off home, when my agent called. She told me that she had put them right. Being a singer is not a hobby and no mtter what happens they still hasd to pay me. If I wasn't there I wou;ld have been working somewhere else. On top of that, I still have to pay commission on the contracted amount, so Iwou;ld actually have been about £7 out of pocket +petrol + loss of earnings from another venue.

Tibby, if you do start here are some tips.

Whatever you do, you must remember that you need to entertain an audience that really varies from venue to venue. Sometimes weddings, working mens, pubs, all with different age groups and tastes in music.

Decide what kind of act you will be. I sing mainly soul and motown in my solo set. I do, however make sure that they are well known songs that everybody knows. That is not to say that I do the same material as everybody else. I have been to a few gigs recently where, the clientelle and staff at the venua have loved what I do because I'm not doing what every other female artist is doing....Duffy and Amy!!

Get your sets together before you contact agents, You never know, they may have something for you that weekend. I do 2x 45 min sets. First set has a couple of ballads, but mainly songs that people will sit and listen too, stuff like 'Ain't Nobody. My second set is much more up tempo with Rockin Robin and Nutbush. That sort of thing.

If you decide to do up to date stuff, you need to keep on top of it. That is actually one of the reason that I do classic songs, less expense and less learning lol.

Don't let this frighten you, but you need to have a thick skin. Last week I was setting up in a pub. One of the blokes asked if I did Anastasia. I said, sorry, but no. He then said, well if you haven't got it, I'm going. He then got up and left......unbelievable.

Good luck and contact me if you have any more questions.

Sarah


  • 15 years ago
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Nathan Head
Actor

oh Sarah, i've had that happen, where i've sent an act home early or similar. and i have always paid them the contracted amount. but i have heard of so many stories where they just get told to go with no money, even though they turned up and was willing to perform (as contracted)


there was one very extreme exception that happened, where i sent an act home early. i just didn't have the heart to tell her why so i lied and said we were shutting early. still paid her
i wont say who she was, in case someone knows her! eep lol


  • 15 years ago
  • 5
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I hear what you are all saying here!
I have had a real good run over the last 18 years I rarely have used agents and my name and show have proved to be the proof in the pudding I guess.
Since moving to Manchester tho fro the North East of Scotland I have not only taken less than half a pay cut but found SHARKS wanting to bite every peice off me.
As for the agents who are acts themselves them and thier "pets" are always in work.
I mean this sincerely wherever I sing I always get told I will be asked back as I am the best act they have had (the venues words not mine)but the agents never seem to get intouch to be asked back.
So I have mailed out in th eold way this week 350 resumes to various venues I have sang in and asked to be booked direct and no I advertise as FREELANCE cuts out the agents fees and also the risk of them skinny you.
I have found ONE agent here in Manc. who is HONEST and loyal SPOTLIGHT ENTS.
Duane is a great and decent bloke.


  • 15 years ago
  • 6
Vikki Lyons
Singer, Actor

Hey Sarah,

Thanks for all the tips!! - Man, people are nice on CCP :-)

Well, doing a CD at the mo of some stuff and have been trawling around restaurants and pubs, but other than that I'm at a bit of a loss!!

Not sure what to do next really and I ain't gonna sit around waiting for the phone to ring that's for sure!!

Quite happy to do a couple of free gigs, just to get my name around - do you think that is a good idea?


Vikki


  • 15 years ago
  • 7

Hi Vikki,

I doubt if you'll need to- you should get a few takers amongst the pubs, especially if you've got a CD or even just decent flyers. There are some pubs who just have acts in there who are willing to do it for nothing but the standard is pretty awful. Leave those pubs to teenage rock bands who want to do a bit of band practice!
If you are professional, you should expect to be paid. (That sounds familiar...)
Other people will advise you on a good starting rate, I'm sure as it's probably diffferent for solo artists.
As far as agents go, we get far more work ourselves. We've never bothered with showcases but it's something that some agents seem to prefer so you might want to consider that.
Good luck!


  • 15 years ago
  • 8
Vikki Lyons
Singer, Actor

Hey thanks!! For that.

So do these guys actually listen to the Cd or do they just toss them in the nearest bin??

Had interest from a couple of restaurants, so who knows??

(Sorry for all the questions, at my day job and got wayyy to much time!!)

:-)


  • 15 years ago
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Nathan Head
Actor

i dunno about others, but i always listened to any demo CDs i received. i even keep them! i still have a pile! lol


  • 15 years ago
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Nathan Head
Actor

i already tried that!LOl

i used to DJ a lot, and when it was quiet i used to give the demos an airing to see the reaction. lol


  • 15 years ago
  • 11
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I've tried going round with cd's and photos and all of that. Apart from being expensive, it's also really time consuming.

If you want to do this as a means to an end, i wouldn't bother with that. Just get yourself a couple of agents.

You'll got on theur websites for weddings etc. You shopuld also get onb trheir curcuits for pubs and working mens.

You should expect to work, once you get started, at least every saturday night. You then may get Fridays and Sundays too. On a Saturday night, the minimum wage you should expect is about £130.

Don't do free gigs. If you can sing, have the right material and have a couple of agents, their really is no need to. In my experience, if you start doing free gigs for friends, they will always expect you to do this.

To get with an agents, they do it a couple of ways. As you're new to the game, you may need to do an audition. This can be nerve racking in front of all of the other artists. You'll be singing alongside novices and experienced acts who maybe have moved areas or want to increase their gigs by getting more agents.


I've also worked in venues who hav their own P.A. This also can be a problem as you can't be sure of the quality of their stuff. My microphone cost me nearly £500. So compromising on this is not great for me.


Start up costs for a p.a. can be quite expensive, but you can look on ebay, or second hand from from pa shops.

I don't know if you have any equipment, but to give you an idea

amp/mixer £500
microphone £500
speakers £600
minidisc player £100
spaeker and mic stands can't remember, probably second hand for about £100.


Obviously this can vary greatly, you can get mics for £100 for example. You really need to go to a shop and try a few to see what will suit you.

So like I say, expensive sart up, but you can re-coup this in a couple of months.

Hope this helps

Sarah


  • 15 years ago
  • 12
Nathan Head
Actor

with
christmas coming up, she may recoup this quicker!

good singers are always in great demand over xmas and new year, and you can charge double or more too!


  • 15 years ago
  • 13
Vikki Lyons
Singer, Actor

Man!! You guys are blowing my mind!!

Thank you all so much!

I think I get my hands on some equipment and backing tracks and (don't mean to blow my own trumpet), but voice is pretty good. So just need to set up the gigs.

How did you guys market your stuff though, - cos I don't look particularly rock n roll, but I have been known to belt out the odd number!!

p.s Nathan - do you want another CD to add to your collection lol!! ;-)


  • 15 years ago
  • 14
Nathan Head
Actor

haha, i would like to hear you sing but alas, i no longer work in that field. lol


  • 15 years ago
  • 15
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I am not sure if your coments are for others or me???
I have been pro for 18 years and I have a state of the art PA its huge and lighting to.
I am not starting out I do know a lot about the biz but I am finding it pretty hard to understand some agencies.
I have worked for many celebs been on tv and west end. it dont matter how good you are tho.
I have had and still have a very successful career in Scotland I earn £300 a night but here in Manc. I am lucky to find let alone do a gig for more than £150 I know I am good at my job I prove that still in Scotland so I cant understand if I am doing a good one here also why these agents are bending over backwards to give me good gigs?? after all the more I get the more they get !
I am begining to wonder who is shooting who in the foot now!
Or could it be that there is favouritism or a bit of jealousy going on I wonder?
I am past the smalltime pubs now I need to be up the ladder more!!


  • 15 years ago
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God !!
My PA is worth over £25K !!!!


  • 15 years ago
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TIBBY
I can help you with obtaining tracks good equipment and where to buy.
DONT GO TO HIGH STREET SHOPS!!!


  • 15 years ago
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Well darkworld, I've got a microphone that suits my voice really well. I'm a great live singer and i really don't want my voice to sound compromised by a microphone that doesn't suit. It's got to be down to your voice, style, gender when choosing. The only way to do it is to go in and try loads of them.


Andy, I don't know why we don't get paid as much as in Scotland here in Manchester. I mean obviously I do get good paying gigs like you've described for corporate and weddings etc. But my bread and butter is the £175 regularly, every Saturday night + any other nights that I might get. Some weeks it's just the one, other weeks I can do four.

Maybe the business has been saturated in this area. I know loads of venues who are sick of getting rubbish acts and are thinking about getting rid of entertainment altogether.

I don't know, Andy. Maybe this recession will sort the wheat as it were.


  • 15 years ago
  • 19
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I used to use a SM58 its an industry standars all round good robust mic with a good top end nice and crisp.
But I moved on thr top of the range BEYER DYNAMIC its smoothe suits my high range and sound less screechy. It set me back over £300 but well worth it I wont use 58s now unless I have to .
I have compression on everything and it really makes my bass sound cool but I do play at high volumes and its needed.


  • 15 years ago
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